Switching to Windows from Mac...advice??

[David Milisock]

If you put a USB stick into a Windows machine does the stick automatically show up on the desktop or do you have to search for it?

D​epends on the user, on a true Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and 10 - 64 bit system the first time you put a drive in you get a choice and then Windows remembers that choice for the future, (use a Pro version if you can). Now if you buy a Toshiba, HP, Asus or other brand name system their manufacturing process has them mass ghosting drives and their version of Windows may be different than a true from MS Windows disk install. If you get a Windows system and like USB flash drives make sure they are formatted so a MAC can see them if you have that need, NTFS drives will let a MAC read but not write, most large USB flash drives do not normally support MAC. I've been in graphics long before the MAC and at one time it was the only game but I have only used Windows for my personal graphics system since 1998 maybe. Unfortunately I hoped when Apple moved to the Intel they would be competition for MA, no such luck Apple sells records and phones now too bad. On the other hand Windows 7, 8.1 and 10 Pro 64 Bit are just wonderful, anything I buy just plugs in and runs. STAY AWAY FROM OPEN SOURCE CRAP!

 

[David Milisock]

Honestly today, other than the programs that you have already licensed and paid for, there is really no compelling reason to stick with MAC I (AND I am a mac Bigot for many years) There are slight differences between having to work with Native customer supplied Application MAC supplied files Verses receiving and working with Customer supplied PDF files, but even that today causes little issues. I have many customers that their prepress departments are all PC based, and no MAC in sight. Fonts was once the greatest issues, but that is rare, and only when working with Native application files. Most high end processing systems (XMF ,Printergy, Prinect, EA12, etc, are built to process and Rip PDF files on a PC platform

I am seeing some newer RIPS and hardware just not having MAC support, our new Eco Solvent does not, you can use files from a MAC graphics application via hot folder if you format the MAC properly but not all the application integration processes for CorelDraw and Illustrator, one would think that AI on the MAC side would have been supported but the tech said there are just not enough MAC users to pay for the required R & D. ​Outside of this forum there is very little MAC talk unless you go to a MAC forum. With the issue with keychain and sandbox one wonders what's up with Apple.

 

[Pixelpushin]

I maintain all the computers at work, we are a small family shop so do all sorts of things other then prepress. I have to say, when I switched over almost all our computers (needed 2 that were dedicated to our CTP running XP) to Mac, well it made my life a lot simpler. Just seems to be a lot simpler. Now this was XP, I know Win 7 is much better and am liking Win 10, but have only been playing around with that so light usage. I am not eager to jump back into a Windows environment here, it would take some pretty massive blunders on Apples part to push me fully that way. Headaches went down significantly and I have to spend almost no time at all fixing or problem solving on the macs here.

Sorry, but this is still where windows just flat out sucks. I maintain 22 Macs and 3 Mac servers which require maybe 1-2 hours a week. The Windows PC's in prepress need to updated weekly with software updates and fixes. What's up with Apple? What's up with Microsoft laying off 30,000 people in the last 12 months.

PC's are fine for prepress even though they still require babysitting but Macs still rule the design and typesetting world in my universe. I have no idea how Google gets by without any Windows machines allowed in the company.

 

[David Milisock]

Pilxelpushin my Windows systems update them selves, if they ask for a restart I do it. I also manage as part of my computer support business another 235 systems. Mostly MA Office, CAD, Adobe and Corel products almost all Windows 7 Pro 64 bit and I use a Windows Nokia phone. The billable hours got to be so low I had to take on other types of work which is why I do signs now as well as write articles and books. I find it funny that no MAC people talk about keychain or sandbox issues even though the security issues have been all over the tech site for over a year. People are Ford or Chevy people and they don't like change, I'm a fan boy of profits and when 98% of the people in the business world use product A I support it fully. When that changes, (as I said FAN BOY OF MONEY) I'll change. In my experience 99% of Windows issues are user based and buying name brand systems loaded with CRAP from the start. Cheap people getting free porn counts as just stupid, if you want porn buy it they keep their sites clean. BTW I also manage the systems for 3 veterinary offices, as the software is for the practices do not like change these systems are set NOT TO upgrade Windows, the one practice is 18 months old with no restarts of the server, it was struck by lightening last week and the fire control system flooded the server room so we are starting over there. The other two servers never restart and one is 5 years old and the other a little over 3 years old. It's not Windows or MAC it's DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING? Most MAC guys can't find their way around windows and the same can be said for most Windows guys, in fact I don't touch the MAC because I know just enough to be dangerous. You can't go wrong with either if you put the right system for the right task. Unfortunately for the end user Apple never took being a serious contender to Microsoft as part of their plan so we're stuck with the Microsoft plan, Unix for the end user is a joke as in Lynix.

 

[David Milisock]

If you do switch to Windows, here are a few suggestions:

1. As David said, don't buy store-bought systems from places like Best Buy. Those systems often come with a ton of bloatware you're not going to need (and it slows your system down!).
2. Purchase anti-virus/anti-malware software and ensure you keep it up to date ;-)

Just my 2¢

pd

I'm using Windows anti virus products only with great results, I have a couple bad boy clients and I buy Malwarebytes for them but MS updates their product sometimes 3 or 4 times a day. No one does better, I haven't had any problems in over a decade but my life is boring. I haven't had a client with a virus on their business system in more than 3 years.

 

[Pixelpushin]

Pilxelpushin my Windows systems update them selves, if they ask for a restart I do it. I also manage as part of my computer support business another 235 systems. Mostly MA Office, CAD, Adobe and Corel products almost all Windows 7 Pro 64 bit and I use a Windows Nokia phone. The billable hours got to be so low I had to take on other types of work which is why I do signs now as well as write articles and books. I find it funny that no MAC people talk about keychain or sandbox issues even though the security issues have been all over the tech site for over a year. People are Ford or Chevy people and they don't like change, I'm a fan boy of profits and when 98% of the people in the business world use product A I support it fully. When that changes, (as I said FAN BOY OF MONEY) I'll change. In my experience 99% of Windows issues are user based and buying name brand systems loaded with CRAP from the start. Cheap people getting free porn counts as just stupid, if you want porn buy it they keep their sites clean. BTW I also manage the systems for 3 veterinary offices, as the software is for the practices do not like change these systems are set NOT TO upgrade Windows, the one practice is 18 months old with no restarts of the server, it was struck by lightening last week and the fire control system flooded the server room so we are starting over there. The other two servers never restart and one is 5 years old and the other a little over 3 years old. It's not Windows or MAC it's DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING? Most MAC guys can't find their way around windows and the same can be said for most Windows guys, in fact I don't touch the MAC because I know just enough to be dangerous. You can't go wrong with either if you put the right system for the right task. Unfortunately for the end user Apple never took being a serious contender to Microsoft as part of their plan so we're stuck with the Microsoft plan, Unix for the end user is a joke as in Lynix.

You must be much better then our IT department that maintains all the PC's in three locations and 3 different states. I agree with you on the “Do you know what you're doing” and that's part of the problem with Windows users. The end users generally don't know what they're doing.

We tried one designer on a PC once, who had been using a PC for graphic design for 5 years. Three months later he switched to a Mac and if I told you why it would just bring up more issues like speed of workflow on PC compared to a Mac and reliability is my favorite.

I've heard it all and have been doing this for over 20 years...Apple is going out of business.
I know Windows is just fine but not here or any ad agency, marketing department I've been into.
HP's Marketing Department in Boise? Macs
Microns Marketing Department in Boise? Macs
Albertsons...Macs

I've had enough fun with this…use what you want and enjoy.

 

[Keith]

I have both Mac and PC at my shop and Linux (Ubuntu and Lubuntu) at home (it's not that bad Mr. Milisock). We are slowly transitioning to PC because I'm just tired of paying Apple prices. I also love the fact that I can upgrade and modify a PC quickly and easily. Sure, Macs may breakdown less but when they do, good luck. I had a hard drive fail on an iMac (I know, really?! It failed? How did that happen?!) and it took me three damn hours to replace the hard drive. I can replace a hard drive on a PC in three minutes. Another reason for my switch is I like building PCs and I can repurpose them very easily.

 

[David Milisock]

Keith I believe you've hit on one issue, that's the desire for PC manufactures to make systems cheap and the effect it has on the end user, so many use bottom end components. As I write this I'm using A Toshiba laptop, I5, 8GB RAM it had a 500gb hard drive when new, I got it to support Windows 8 when it first came out for $489. It was hinky ass all the time until I removed the low end Western Digital drive and replaced it with a different Western Digital 750 GB high speed drive, after that it was a good system and it now runs Windows 10 and is a great system.

That's why over the last 25 years I have built my desktop work stations, my 8 business systems run 24/7/365, I can remember two that failed before we outgrew their operating systems. Sure I read the tech publications and keep up with the changes all the time, it's just the cost of business but in the last 25 years it has save me well into the 6 figure range not being tied to Apple, let's face it I build serious server class systems for $1,500. When we first started in the support business for graphics we had to support Apple and quickly discovered that the clients were just awful and Apple support was a serious joke. We moved to PC's for all creation years ago, we still have one MC to handle some MAC files but charge a serious upcharge for doing so. I still do some print but avoid it do to the profit margins being poverty stricken, working mainly in wide and grand format in print and sign business we use the CorelDraw Graphics Suite as the main application, there is no MAC version. If you do what I do and you're using MAC and Adobe or even PC and Adobe just take about 25% off the margins from your graphics department. There are so many things you need to do in many graphics markets that with Adobe/MAC you either can't do or when you do it, it's the long way around the barn that it kills your margins.

Let's face it ​when you make a graph over time for the performance of the graphics industry it's a downward slope to oblivion, fewer jobs, lower pay, lower profits. We as an industry need to rethink how we do things and I can only tell you that in 25 years getting rid of the MAC has been good for me it has not hurt me. I love the graphics business it has put my kids through college and supported my family for over 40 years, I suggesting that those in it rethink their processes, I did and my margins went up not down.

 

[David Milisock]

pixelpushin, Apple will be here for my lifetime unfortunately, they're like Harley are the worst product in their class but they have a loyal following. I'm not sure you guys keep up with IT as much as you think. This economy has been devastating to those in the IT industry, companies that used to have 3 to 5 guys are now using 1 and in reality the system performance has improved so many of them may have been the issue. Server class systems today are vastly superior as are the work stations and unfortunately printing companies are in many ways placing applications that are still in the stone ages in terms of programming technology, applications supporting older operating systems.

I can go to a consumer store and buy $50,000 worth of products to automate anything from a $100,000 telescope (one of my vet clients has one) to my toaster, load them in Windows and they all work, and I have done much of this BTW. If I buy a $100,000 work flow from a graphics provider I'll be lucky if it loads without tech support, hell I bought $7,000 worth of color management software and it took downloading patches and dongle updates for two days just to realize that their damn dongle never got updated so I waited for two more days for them to do that. This is the kind of performance that has plagued the graphics industry which is why I suggest a new way of thinking.

BTW using marketing departments as an example of industry leaders is like using the term military intelligence.

 

[Craig]

So I buy a nice new EFI RIP for $75,000.00 to run my Xerox 1000. It runs on Windows 7, and quite well I might add. I wouldn't own a MAC, but that is my preference, especially when I can have 2 PC's for the price of an iMac. BTW, in 20+ years I have not had a single virus, or network problems.

 

[AP90]

pixelpushin, Apple will be here for my lifetime unfortunately, they're like Harley are the worst product in their class but they have a loyal following. I'm not sure you guys keep up with IT as much as you think. This economy has been devastating to those in the IT industry, companies that used to have 3 to 5 guys are now using 1 and in reality the system performance has improved so many of them may have been the issue. Server class systems today are vastly superior as are the work stations and unfortunately printing companies are in many ways placing applications that are still in the stone ages in terms of programming technology, applications supporting older operating systems.

I can go to a consumer store and buy $50,000 worth of products to automate anything from a $100,000 telescope (one of my vet clients has one) to my toaster, load them in Windows and they all work, and I have done much of this BTW. If I buy a $100,000 work flow from a graphics provider I'll be lucky if it loads without tech support, hell I bought $7,000 worth of color management software and it took downloading patches and dongle updates for two days just to realize that their damn dongle never got updated so I waited for two more days for them to do that. This is the kind of performance that has plagued the graphics industry which is why I suggest a new way of thinking.

BTW using marketing departments as an example of industry leaders is like using the term military intelligence.

Those are some pretty harsh words right there. I know next to nothing in the case of building PC's and Macs, but I have a hard time finding any truth to your statement about Mac's being the worst product in their field. A loyal fan base only goes so far. If your the worst product out there, eventually that is going to take you down.

Our places uses all Mac's for our workstations, but we do have the brand new fiery for our 1000i like Craig was talking about. It runs like a dream. So do our Mac's. Personally I prefer Mac's for the user interface and operating system. But there's nothing wrong with PC's.

People have mentioned they hate Apple fanboys. I also hate people who all they do is bash apple. Give credit where credit is due. Many graphic designers and firms solely use Mac's. I doubt they would use the worst product out there. Just my non IT viewpoint.

 

[David Milisock]

AP90 I haven't bashed Apple I said I wished when the turn to Intel based systems happened they would have taken it seriously and been REAL competition for Microsoft.

With that said you seem to not understand installed user based, embedded educational systems and the users lack of desire for change. The print graphics industry in general has an installed base of MACs and a serious investment in equipment, training (and as my 40 years experience has shown me) also a management that has little to no technical capability. The technicians that are in place have a vested interest in their jobs, the education community has in many cases prostituted themselves for corporate donations and teach only the products that are donating to them. I had that argument at Stevens Collage, Millersville University, Penn College and RTI. So the problems is the designers who are not technical at all use what they were taught, in other words they were taught what to think not HOW TO THINK, unfortunately this is a modern education.

To make a very long story​ short, the mathematics of history have the answer, even after Microsoft screwed the pooch two times with Vista and Windows 8, Apple has very little of the market, 5% maybe, allot less of the corporate market. In Lancaster County PA what was the print capitol of the country the servers for graphics are Windows, many work stations are now PC's, MACs still exist but a very few are newer and most are 3 to 4 years old if not older, if you do print and do signs large format forget MAC my new printer does not support it. Apple said it better than anyone else can, Apple Computer does not exist, t's Apple and they focus on toys, record sales and phones. Lets face it look at our industry, do you see more graphics companies or less? In my area about 75% less, everyone gone are many MACs gone. It's mathematics sink or swim!

 

[David Milisock]

Craig the EFI RIP has certainly come along way. How do you like how it handle transparency?

Unfortunately the health and future of the graphics industry is reflected in this thread. It seems that many don't seem to understand that in the technology world the dark ages are only a year or two ago. I'm reconfiguring our sign division, three graphic creation stations, they're desktops, I7 - 32 GB RAM, SSD's with 2 GB video cards, $1800, Windows 7 Pro, CorelDraw X7 as the main graphic application $250 per station, with 1 system having Adobe CS 5.5, NOT BUYING ANYMORE ADOBE. All other systems for administration are laptops as there is no need for UPS. Admin and graphics Sever is Windows Server $1600 and the RIPS are Windows 7 Pro with 16 GB of RAM and minimal video cards.

 

[toronar]

So I buy a nice new EFI RIP for $75,000.00 to run my Xerox 1000. It runs on Windows 7, and quite well I might add.

There is an EFI RIP that is worth $75,000? Even "free" seems overpriced.

So the problems is the designers who are not technical at all use what they were taught, in other words they were taught what to think not HOW TO THINK, unfortunately this is a modern education.

So true.
How does a secretary with several MS Office learning course diplomas use Excel to sum up all numbers in a column? She requisitions a calculator and starts typing the numbers in, and then transfers the end result back to Excel. But at least she can make some cells bold. Lines/underlines are drawn on the printout with a ruler. I have no idea how this person got their learning course diplomas for MS Office.

 

[David Milisock]

toronar I agree, unfortunately we have a society where more people have a degree, but now the degree is next to useless. Education is a business and that business is providing jobs for educators not educating students. If anyone thinks I'm kidding just take a graduate for a design, school or a print trade school and have them create a 6 color job, 4 colors and two spots and maybe a varnish. If you want to really test them use cmyk as well as spot transparency and that varnish plate, a nice test. Most people with a degree need training to make copies.