Anyone running Toyo inks on a waterless press??

[Risu]

Try CKMY instead of KCMY. Then you might know is the problem ink or the press.

 

[Disappointed]

But waterless was supposed to solve all these problems!!!!!!

I fully agree, the trouble is that supply industry did not keep up and there really is little support for it in the way of inks etc.

When it works, it is amazing, I know of no other press/process where I can come in to work in the morning and within 15 minutes I can be producing colour matched work by only pressing a few buttons - no dampers to wet, plates to fit, register to get, paper stretch to account for....

But, when it fails, and it does fail, it can be very, very expensive in terms of time wasted and supplies used in setting it up. Take this failure for instance, I have not produced a usable sheet since Monday morning, it's Wednesday morning now and still no reply from Presstek - If we were a jobbing shop and not in-plant, I would likely be bankrupt by Friday if not certainly in an embarrassing position with my customers.

As I said before, if I had my time over again, I would likely buy a Heidelberg SM52-4 standard press.

 

[james Taylor]

Toyo lz?

Toyo lz?

Have you tried TOYO LZ - low tack series? We sell both MZ and LZ but find that the LZ is far more popular. You mention looking at reducer so assume you think tack may be the issue.
Also for some reason some customers find running long grain rather than short grain stock helps against tack.

James Taylor
Taylor Inks

Looking for help again, we have finally had to resort to using Toyo Aqualess MZ inks on our 52Di press as all other brands have now failed through one reason or another

We have managed to get acceptable results on coated and satin coated stocks but it refuses to run on uncoated stock - we get terrible blotchy or patchy print on the cyan and to a much lesser extent on magenta.

It seems there are no reducers compatible with these inks, we have tried softer blankets and different press temperatures to no effect.

The suppliers have managed to reproduce the effect which is good but getting a resolution is taking too long and jobs are piling up.

Any suggestions, anyone else suffering the woes of waterless print??[/QUOTE

 

[Deleted member 16349]

I fully agree, the trouble is that supply industry did not keep up and there really is little support for it in the way of inks etc.

When it works, it is amazing, ...within 15 minutes I can be producing colour matched work


As I said before, if I had my time over again, I would likely buy a Heidelberg SM52-4 standard press.

Interesting. Coincidentally I am just now designing a prototype of my invention for a SM52. Fairly simple design.
There is a chance it might get built and tested. Maybe not.

If run with UV inks, it would probably be able to give the performance you liked with waterless, when waterless worked well.

You are right about the industry not keeping up. If they would have fixed the fundamental problems in the process, they would not have even bothered to develop waterless and other options to avoid actually solving existing problems.

It seems the normal mode of thinking in the printing industry that when they have problems with one method, they go to some new method where they will have a whole new set of problems that they also can't understand and fix. This seems to hold true for the press and for prepress.

Anyhow, I hope you find a solution to you current issues.

 

[D Ink Man]

Interesting. Coincidentally I am just now designing a prototype of my invention for a SM52. Fairly simple design.
There is a chance it might get built and tested. Maybe not.

If run with UV inks, it would probably be able to give the performance you liked with waterless, when waterless worked well.

You are right about the industry not keeping up. If they would have fixed the fundamental problems in the process, they would not have even bothered to develop waterless and other options to avoid actually solving existing problems.

It seems the normal mode of thinking in the printing industry that when they have problems with one method, they go to some new method where they will have a whole new set of problems that they also can't understand and fix. This seems to hold true for the press and for prepress.

Anyhow, I hope you find a solution to you current issues.

If they have problems now Erik, where do we go?

1) Litho? Exclusive question to it.

2) Is Nanography going to be the answer as to the silver bullet?

D

 

[Deleted member 16349]

If they have problems now Erik, where do we go?

1) Litho? Exclusive question to it.

2) Is Nanography going to be the answer as to the silver bullet?

D

I don't know where things will eventually go but I suspect that many different processes will be used. As long as the customers like what they get, they will not care about how it was done.

What I do seem to see is that the new processes are being developed by people who were not normally in the printing industry. Engineers and scientists are working on these new methods and it seems very little original thinking is coming out of the traditional press suppliers.

Who knows, some new and unexpected printing concept, that costs less but performs better, may turn up that puts other processes in an uncompetitive position. Real innovation aways brings surprises.

As for Nanography, I suspect it is not going to be the process of the future as many hope. Even if they get the serious physics issues with the blanket solved, I think they might be too late to market. Probably too expensive too. Their web press concept is faulty also. Their marketing plan is faulty too because they underrate the potential capabilities with offset for shorter runs, which we are already seeing.

But I wish anyone who works on developing innovative ideas a lot of luck. It is not an easy thing to do. It would be great if they will surprise us all.

 

[D Ink Man]

Thank you Erik, very thoughtful reply.

Another thing about nano (not to belabor it) is the ink portion of the equation. A vehicle less colorstuff just goes against all the principals of any printing method since the invention of ink many Chinese, Egyptian moons ago.

Just cannot wrap around it from my nodical knowledge of printing and ink. We shall see what the Israelites come up with...............................................

D

 

[ron roners]

Toyo lz?

Have you tried TOYO LZ - low tack series? We sell both MZ and LZ but find that the LZ is far more popular. You mention looking at reducer so assume you think tack may be the issue.
Also for some reason some customers find running long grain rather than short grain stock helps against tack.

James Taylor
Taylor Inks

Looking for help again, we have finally had to resort to using Toyo Aqualess MZ inks on our 52Di press as all other brands have now failed through one reason or another

We have managed to get acceptable results on coated and satin coated stocks but it refuses to run on uncoated stock - we get terrible blotchy or patchy print on the cyan and to a much lesser extent on magenta.

It seems there are no reducers compatible with these inks, we have tried softer blankets and different press temperatures to no effect.

The suppliers have managed to reproduce the effect which is good but getting a resolution is taking too long and jobs are piling up.

Any suggestions, anyone else suffering the woes of waterless print??[/QUOTE

We have been running a QMDI for the past 6-years and have always had to squeeze the heck out of the sheet when printing on uncoated stock. We run Toyo MZ because the LZ or reduced ink will tone on uncoated for us.
Our biggest problem for the past 2-years or so is trailing edge of solids picking. On coated text weight stocks we have always had to reduce the toyo MZ with reducing fluid in order to get the work off which screws up all of your ink key and sweep settings.
LZ inks have a tendency to tone for us. We have done every imaginable thing to try and fix the picking without reducing the ink and have found no answer. We currently have 5- manufacturers ink in our cabinet, 6-different blanket styles, multiple packing sheets, tried all chiller temp settings, pressroom temp settings, humidity pressroom settings and none have solved our picking problem. We are fully trained on this press and set our rollers properly to both distributer and plates but this is not the problem.
Any feed back is appreciated.
One last thing...Coated "Cover weight" prints just fine it is only coated text weights.

 

[ron roners]

Did you ever figure out a good solution for ink??

 

[Disappointed]

Did you ever figure out a good solution for ink??

Still using the Toyo MZ, it seems its the only ink out there really.

The LZ does not have the colour density needed for vibrant work.

We have managed to tackle the picking on rear edges by running at 25c on the rollers, makes a lot of difference.

 

[rchamness]

we have great success with our customers running T&k tOKA ALPO DI I can send you samples if you like

 

[_socket]

Disappointed,

How are you running the rollers at 25c when the lasers are suppose to be at 26c and there is a 3c spread? What room temp are you running?

 

[Disappointed]

Just put the controller to 25, ignore the spread, it works.

Room is air conditioned at 21-23c

I would like to run hotter but as you said, you cant go more than the lasers, but at this setting we get very little to no picking.