Illustrator can't use embedded fonts in a PDF/X-1a?

[McCracAttack]

Often I get PDF/X-1a files which (naturally) have embedded fonts. Other more expensive programs are able to make use of these embedded fonts just fine so I'm a little surprised when Illustrator keeps complaining that the fonts aren't installed. Am I missing a setting or can Illustrator just not use them?

I guess a workaround would be to convert the text to outlines but that's not always an option.

[WharfRat]

The fonts can not be used for what?
- the file can not be reopened in Illustrator?
- the file can not be placed into InDesign?
- the file will not be accepted by the RIP?
-
If #1 - that is always the case.
Illustrator does not embed font for use by Illustrator upon reopening.
The font must be resident.
-
When you save an Illustrator file
you will note the phrase
- "Embed fonts for other applications"
That is what it does.

MSD

[zoran]

Originally Posted by McCracAttack

Often I get PDF/X-1a files which (naturally) have embedded fonts. Other more expensive programs are able to make use of these embedded fonts just fine so I'm a little surprised when Illustrator keeps complaining that the fonts aren't installed. Am I missing a setting or can Illustrator just not use them?

I guess a workaround would be to convert the text to outlines but that's not always an option.

AFAIK that is legal thing with Adobe, not technical, where they won't let you edit font in PDF unless you have that font active on the system.

[kyle]

I agree with zoran. This is probably a case of Adobe's lawyers protecting them from other lawyers. Pitstop lets you edit type, even if only a subset of the font is embedded (usually the case, you're just limited to characters that were in there somewhere to begin with). It will ask you if you acquired the permission of the font creator for many fonts before letting you edit type set in them. I don't know about the rest my fellow Pitstop users, but I have all the common font foundries on speed-dial and call them tens of times every day. They're always very helpful, and say things like "sure, go right ahead and change that comma to a period."

[WharfRat]

AFAIK that is legal thing with Adobe, not technical, where they won't let you edit font in PDF unless you have that font active on the system.
-----
Except the poster was not speaking of editing fonts in a PDF.
He mentioned "Illustrator" was complaining about missing fonts.
Re-open an Illustrator file (.ai - .eps - .pdf) without the fonts loaded
and it does not care if you told the fonts to embed in the previous save.

MSD

[DavidMa]

Illustrator is not a PDF editor.
I'm assuming the PDF files were created in another program other than Illustrator?
That's the reason you get the message.

[Dov Isaacs]

Originally Posted by McCracAttack

Often I get PDF/X-1a files which (naturally) have embedded fonts. ...
I guess a workaround would be to convert the text to outlines but that's not always an option.

A few important notes on behalf of Adobe:

(1) Adobe Illustrator is not a general purpose PDF file editor. The only PDF files that Illustrator can accurately and fully edit are Illustrator files saved as PDF with which the Preserve Illustrator Editing Capabilities option is specified and for which fonts used in the original Illustrator document are installed. When you open a PDF file that from Illustrator that was not created with Preserve Illustrator Editing Capabilities or a PDF file created via other means, Illustrator converts that PDF to an internal format, a process that may in fact be lossy, especially when multiple color spaces are used in the PDF file or graphic capabilities are exercised that are not part of the Illustrator feature set. Illustrator's graphic model is a subset of the full PDF imaging model! Be very careful in opening such PDF files in Illustrator; you do so at your own risk!!

(2) Note that contrary to some unfortunate perceptions provided by some Adobe marketing folks a number of years back (closer to 10 years ago now), PDF is not, repeat not the native file format of Adobe Illustrator. When you save a .AI file, a private file format is saved as private data within a dummy PDF file. When you save an Illustrator file as a PDF file with the Preserve Illustrator Editing Capabilities option specified, the content is output twice within the PDF file, first as PDF compatible content and secondly as a private file format within a private data section of that PDF file. When you open such a PDF file in Illustrator, it uses the private data, not the PDF data!!!

(3) The fonts embedded within either a PDF file saved by Illustrator (with or without the Preserve Illustrator Editing Capabilities option) or by any other PDF generator are never used by either Illustrator for editing or by Acrobat Pro for touch-up. Why? There are two reasons. One of the reasons touched upon in this thread is the legal reason. We cannot always determine the original embedding access privileges of the font. Requiring the user to install the font on their system puts the onus on the end user to prove license compliance for use of the font in an editing context. But there is another important reason not discussed. Typically not only are fonts subset embedded (in which case only a subset of the fonts' glyphs are accessible), but even if a font is fully embedded, quite a bit of the font metrics information that is required for full and proper text editing is not actually embedded in the PDF file. This information includes kerning information, OpenType style tables, ligature information, etc. The only situation in which a truly full font (including all metric information) is embedded in a PDF file is if (a) OpenType fonts are used, (b) PDF 1.6 (Acrobat 7) compatibility is used, (c) the Embed OpenType fonts option is selected and the Subset embedded fonts option is not selected for PDF generators that know what to do with such options. Condition (c) is not available with any Adobe application except Distiller - it is not available for InDesign, Illustrator, or Photoshop. And for better or worse, neither Acrobat Pro nor Illustrator currently support use of fully embedded OpenType fonts, primarily since the applications don't yet produce them.

- Dov

[WharfRat]

And ...
with regard to the original post ...
Illustrator needs file fonts to be installed
whenever ANY Illustrator file (with fonts) is opened.
-
If Illustrator or Pitstop or Photoshop is a PDF editor is not the question here.

MSD

[McCracAttack]

Huh, well its good to know the reason this is happening. I was indeed treating Illustrator like a native PDF editor but I'm obviously going to have to re-think that.

I appreciate all the detailed responses. At least now I know not to keep beating my head against this.

[J_Lindgren]

If you really need *native* PDF editing capability, please take a look at Neo by EskoArtwork.

EskoArtwork also supply a plug-in for Illustrator called "InPDF", that enables you to retain certain editing capabilities specific to Illustrator, when you save a file as "InPDF" (as opposed to "plain" PDF, with which you will encounter "Illegal Imaging Construct -error every now and then.) This includes text editing.
This plug-in will insert additional data to the privat block of PDF, that will enable you to save an Illustrator file as InPDF, edit it in another application - and when re-opened in Illustrator, you have not lost the editability.
This will not, of course, make "plain" PDFs any more editable, than before...