Opening .pdfs in Illustrator

[alang66]

The comments about Illustrator not being a PDF editor are absolutely correct. My comment would be whether you need to open the files in Illustrator in the first place. The comment that people use my PDFs for print all the time suggests to me that tey are supplied as print ready PDFs. Whether they still contain RGB images or not is a matter for the final print engine to decide final appearance not whether Illustrator will open both colour models. If the files are print-ready but require codes, I would place the PDFs in Illustrator or Indesign and add the code then re-PDF the file. That way should get around any Illustrator glitches with opening up files. We supply print-ready files and opening back up in Illustrator, I have come across the following glitches:

Text problems with custom encoding
Inability to give editability to some gradients and device-N colour images (yet they separate fine on print)
Linked PDF images/artwork makes requests for original image even though it is embedded in the file

If you need to do more than this to files then they are probably not print-ready and supplier needs to be aware of how to supply them. Most common problem is that, as artworkers, we will do labels and such like as front and reverse on the same artwork which is not necessarily print ready as they need to be imposed/stepped individually

[beermonster]

packaging here.

agreed illy is not supposed to be a pdf editor, and if you don't have the necessary tools to edit pdf's you need to get some. having said that (and i'm gonna regret saying this) we do open pdf's in illy - BUT we are ultra careful - where poss we will place pdf's, edit in acrobat or Oris PDF tuner (handy but cranky editor) and go from there.

but for me, in my part of the trade, layered indy, illy or photoshop files is THE best - i try to block quack from my mind.....

so - pdf editors for packaging....Neo is arguably king of the heap, artpro is good but expensive, illustrator...no NO - errr I have oris pdf tuner - damm cranky GUI, a bit oldy fashioned but has saved us many times - then of course pitstop ( i don't have this) is an old favourite - and callas have some superb tools as well - there's more but more importantly there's choices

i still prefer illustrator though haaaaaa (omg don't shoot me - Dov - put that damm gun down!!!)

[MJNC]

Good Morning, PrintPlanet Folk!
Ridety; I did save eps files out of Acrobat and tried opening them in Illustrator. The good thing about this is that it will outline the embedded fonts for you so there are no font errors in Illustrator. However, the main issues were still screwy.
Dov Issacs; I really dig all the information you provided. As I said earlier, most of the time I can pull the required piece of artwork for a job out of a .pdf- sometimes not. This is mainly for me to design new artwork using their logo, etc. Frankly, this is really the first time that I have a client providing a complete job as a .pdf that hasn’t supplied native files. Due to the way they open in Illustrator, with things more rendered than anything else, I was just wondering if there was a new thing in Illustrator that perhaps I did not know about (entirely possible) which grouped things in such a way... well you get the point. REST ASSURED, I will never rely completely on Illustrator for .pdf work. (and please don’t shoot the Beermonster!)
Jose; Now here is some info I can really use! I will find out about getting Pitstop happening around here for future use (per the Beermonster’s comment). I still don’t know if that would even work with getting the rendered objects back to native format, though.
Alang66; The color space issue is not an issue to me in this case. I was just pointing out another flaw with these so-called final files the client says should be fine. I have to take a whole package and remove everything but the front panel, then turn that into a tag, with some modifications, of course. So no, they certainly are not print ready; regardless of the edits. You did confirm my initial thought, that the supplier does not know what to supply.
Beermonster; Thank you for all of the “choice” information. Again, I am going to find out what it will take to get Pitstop happening around here. I do also totally agree with your statement: “I still prefer Illustrator!”
Everyone; You all did confirm for me what I really needed to know, and that was that what they are providing us is indeed unusable. Gotta say, as usual, Y’all Rock!!!
Peace to the PrintPlanet!!!
Thanks a whole bunch!
_mjnc

[MJNC]

Hey! Forgot to say...
What do Y’all know about this Adobe Graphics Manager? Any info?
Thanks again.
_mjnc

[muminn]

First of all, I'm talking from my experience. Never user Illustrator for editing PDF-s. Never.
It's very unprofessional to edit files which already where made for output purpose and not for editing purposes. I've seen some of my friends who were using this option, and they had always problems, like: color change, font change, pictures profiles changed, etc.

Anyway, never heard about Adobe Graphics Manager.
Simple, reinstall Adobe.

[MJNC]

Hi Muminn;
I want to make it perfectly clear to All that I do not use Illustrator to edit .pdfs. Most of the time, I am after a logo or something that’s within a 72 page .pdf, (or off someone’s business card .pdf, or a multitude of other .pdf print pieces) so that I can create brand new art for Price Tags in Illustrator or whatever application I am doing the job in- that the client must then sign off on before we print.
I would never count on Illustrator in such a capacity.
Its just that I received a .pdf from a client that they assured me was print ready and had all of the elements for the new art I was supposed to create. The .pdfs have all sorts of strange pieces which appear to be rasterized, and which also have no line work elements when viewing in artwork mode. All I wanted to know is that when I tell the client the files are unusable, that I am in fact correct. As we are still running CS2 here, and before that was 8.0, I wanted to make sure that there were no new Illustrator features that produced files this way that I was not aware of. OK? Thanks for your concern; everyone is so worried that I am an idiot! Believe me, some of the time I feel like one. But in this case, don’t worry. Thanks everyone.
Peace to the PrintPlanet!
_mjnc

ps. My point here is that before you go writing accusations in reply to me, it is helpful if you read all of the posts up to that point. If you had, I would not have had to write this for the third time. Not that I mind...
Also Muminn; have you given any thought to re-reading what you have typed (to check for spelling and grammatical errors) before hitting the Post Reply button? Also, please explain why you think I should reload the CS2 suite...

[claude72]

Originally Posted by MJNC

Its just that I received a .pdf from a client that they assured me was print ready and had all of the elements for the new art I was supposed to create.

I'm not sure to have understood all the discussion and all your problems, but to pick-up elements in the PDF you need more an editing PDF* than an output PDF ("print ready" PDF or, worst, "web display" PDF)...

(* made by "Saving as PDF" in Illustrator, with the "preserve Illustrator Editing Capabilities" option that embeds the .AI datas, as explained by Dov... or better a .AI file)

Of course it's possible, using Illustrator, to extract some elements from a "print-ready" or a "web-display" PDF (I made it often to pick-up a vector logo from a downloaded PDF...), but it's generally a painfull job, needing to spend many time to clean the file to remove all the unuseful clipping-masks and other garbage added by the PDF format!...

... and all the troubles that you describe - one layer only, RGB+CMYK, rasterized elements (from transparences flattenning), empty boxes with no color (used as clipping-masks), etc. - seems to be those garbage that are in a normal PDF...

If it not a secret, can you send me your PDF (by MP) or simply give the link where it is downloadable on your customer website? I would like to have look at it.

[MJNC]

Claude 72;
I am sorry to say that the products I am making tags for are indeed a secret and are not being released until new product launch next year.
Thank you for your confirmation that these do sound like your basic .pdf (generated with Acrobat) issues.
I do agree that using Illustrator to dig out pieces is - on occasion - painful and messy. Welcome to my day-to-day. However, for the most part it does the trick, and my bosses are ok with that.
We are looking into maybe purchasing the PitStop Plug In for Acrobat; but also I need to get the info together for the bosses about some other inexpensive choices so they can feel like they’ve made the educated decision.
What do you use? Does it do what you need? Are there other products that you’d rather be using? Why? Anyone who feels like answering these questions for me, please feel perfectly free to do so. This is now my mission. Thanks so much for all of your help.
Peace to the PrintPlanet and inhabitants all.
_mjnc

[claude72]

Originally Posted by MJNC

I am sorry to say that the products I am making tags for are indeed a secret and are not being released until new product launch next year.

OK, I understand, no problem...

I do agree that using Illustrator to dig out pieces is - on occasion - painful and messy. Welcome to my day-to-day. However, for the most part it does the trick, and my bosses are ok with that.

Bad understanding of the real possibilites and the real use of PDFs (including the difference between simple output PDF and editable PDF saved from Illustrator with AI datas) by people unaware of DTP or by bad "designers" is actually a worldwide problem... so, dealing with web or office PDF (or with bad PDFs) for Print jobs it's also my day-to-day nightmare!!!
... and I agree that for the most part it's even easier to use Illustrator to pick-up and clean a logo from a web-PDF than to redraw the whole logo with only the basis of a poor 72 dpi JPEG downloaded from the customer's web site home page!!!

We are looking into maybe purchasing the PitStop Plug In for Acrobat; but also I need to get the info together for the bosses about some other inexpensive choices so they can feel like they've made the educated decision.
What do you use? Does it do what you need?

Like many other people, I use PitStop to fix issues in customers's PDF... mainly for "little" or basic corrections...

... and when the PDF is really too crappy and needs more than an "editing" but needs almost a complete re-working of the layout, if the customer doesn't want to give me the native file (or cannot) I prefer open the PDF in Illustrator and redo the job using the PDF as a basis.

But to extract elements from an existing "output" PDF, I think that PitStop is not the right adapted tool... Illustrator is better (or less unadapted)...
(but the best solution in your case is to have an Illustrator .AI file, or a an Illustrator PDF saved with AI datas)

[MJNC]

Hi Claude 72;
If I’m not to edit in Illustrator, and Pitstop cannot handle it, is there really any REAL .pdf editing tool that actually works? I would like to find something; I know it will be used and abused. Thanks for the info and have a safe, happy weekend.
Peace to the PrintPlanet!
_mjnc