Opening .pdfs in Illustrator

[mattbeals]

Besides PitStop and PitStop Extreme there really isn't anything that is a native PDF editor. There are tools that first translate the PDF into a proprietary internal format, and the export it back out as a when you save it.

If PitStop can't do it, then you really should go back to the beginning. PitStop can do *a lot* of things when it comes to editing. The question is how much do you want to do...

[MJNC]

Hi Matt Beals;
Tell me about PitStop Extreme, please. What you like, don’t like, etc. It is sounding more and more like I have been doing this right all along. But would like your comments anyway.
BUT I will not get them until Monday in the am because the work week is over in 10 minutes!
Have a wonderful weekend. Thanks for the numbers... I may use them yet.
Peace to the PrintPlanet!
Kind Regards,
_mjnc

[mattbeals]

PitStop Extreme is PitStop Pro without the need for Adobe Acrobat, that's all it is.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by MJNC

Hi Matt Beals;
Tell me about PitStop Extreme, please. What you like, don’t like, etc. It is sounding more and more like I have been doing this right all along. But would like your comments anyway.
BUT I will not get them until Monday in the am because the work week is over in 10 minutes!
Have a wonderful weekend. Thanks for the numbers... I may use them yet.
Peace to the PrintPlanet!
Kind Regards,
_mjnc

You might have more luck if you open the PDF in Acrobat and select the object you want to capture with the "Touchup Object Tool" and open it with the correct editor (Photoshop for images - Illustrator for vector objects) by right clicking and selecting "Edit Image (Photoshop) or Edit Object (Illustrator)" from the menu. Rarely is there a valid reason to open a PDF in Illustrator if it's not an Illustrator PDF as mentioned by Dov (or unless you are one of those packaging grunts like beermonster ).

[mattbeals]

The editing tools in Acrobat, Touchup object, work very well.

[michaelejahn]

Originally Posted by mattbeals

Besides PitStop and PitStop Extreme there really isn't anything that is a native PDF editor. There are tools that first translate the PDF into a proprietary internal format, and the export it back out as a when you save it..

um, well, i do not think you can really call anything a native PDF editor - the moment you edit, that is the moment you add things that may (or may not) need to be removed (when you save) this is also the case with eiditing a PDF with enfocus tools and and Adobe illustrator.

Other companies to consider;

ONEVISION -*PUBLISHING SOLUTIONS

Global Graphics

www.esko.com/
-- weird, this is down when i checked it

Introduction to PDF/X

Michael Jahn
Jahn & Associates
PDF Conversion Specialist
1824 North Garvin Avenue
Simi Valley
California 93065
Office: (805) 527 8130
Cell: (805) 217 6741
Email: michaelejahn@gmail.com
Skype: michaelejahn
Twitter: Michael Jahn (michaelejahn) on Twitter
Blog: Michael Jahn's blog

[claude72]

Originally Posted by Joe

Rarely is there a valid reason to open a PDF in Illustrator if it's not an Illustrator PDF as mentioned by Dov

A good reason is to extract or pick-up some elements from an output PDF: it's often easier and safier to open the whole page in Illustrator and suppress all the not-needed elements keeping just a logo, than to open the page in Acrobat and select all the elements of the logo to edit them, with the risk to miss or forget some elements!

(as I said before, I often use this method to extract a vector logo from a PDF downloaded on internet: a newsletter, an internal report, an inscription form... everything that is easily and quickly downloadable and contains correct vector logos is usable... believe me, when a job has to be printed next day early morning, it's a good tip to get an (almost) original logo from a company, even when it's too late to ask somebody of this company to send you the logo, or when a stupid secretary has sent you only the JPEG and GIF crap files that he/she has in his/her PC for office jobs)


Another reason (and it seems to be MJNC's actual problem) is to make a new job using an "old" output PDF as a basis, just because the stupid guy who gave you the PDF (or said you to download it from his web-site) is not able to understand the difference between an output PDF and an Illustrator editing PDF with AI datas to work on it easily with Illustrator.


But Joe is right: these both cases are exceptional situations (or should be...) that, AFAIK, have not (yet) been planed by software developpers/editors... because the normal common ways to work with PDF are:

• either you have to print the PDF, and you get an output PDF, and then PitStop or PitStop Extreme or Neo are the good tools to made some minor corrections and to fix some issues...

• or you have to work with the PDF, and (normally) you get an editing PDF, made specially to work with it, by saving from Illustrator with the "preserve Illustrator Editing Capabilities" option, and containing (as explained by Dov) both a PDF part and an AI part.
This PDF is then used as a "transfer" file, easy viewable by anybody in a PDF reader (just using its PDF part), and easy workable by designers with Illustrator (using its AI part)...

... but, again, the situation where the supplier of the PDF mistakes and gives an output PDF (instead of an editing PDF) to work in it has not been planed by software developpers/editors.
So, in this particular situation you have to cope with non-adapted tools and use workarounds, like:
• open the PDF with Illustrator, clean it, remove the old stuff and add the new stuff,
• or remove the old stuff with PitStop, import this "emptied" PDF as a "background" in an InDesign page, and add the new stuff in InDesign...

[mattbeals]

Wouldn't it be true to say that PitStop is the closest thing available to a native PDF editor?

[a-pap]

Originally Posted by claude72

A good reason is to extract or pick-up some elements from an output PDF: it's often easier and safier to open the whole page in Illustrator and suppress all the not-needed elements keeping just a logo, than to open the page in Acrobat and select all the elements of the logo to edit them, with the risk to miss or forget some elements!

(as I said before, I often use this method to extract a vector logo from a PDF downloaded on internet: a newsletter, an internal report, an inscription form... everything that is easily and quickly downloadable and contains correct vector logos is usable... believe me, when a job has to be printed next day early morning, it's a good tip to get an (almost) original logo from a company, even when it's too late to ask somebody of this company to send you the logo, or when a stupid secretary has sent you only the JPEG and GIF crap files that he/she has in his/her PC for office jobs)

Why don't you use the tuch up object tool to do something like that?
I totally believe you don't need (anymore) to use Illustrator for editing pdf files .

[claude72]

Originally Posted by a-pap

Why don't you use the touch up object tool to do something like that?

Because the "touch up object tool" always opens vector objects in Illustrator:

• either it opens/edits the whole selected page of the PDF in Illustrator... in that case, it's no use to:
- open the PDF in Acrobat,
- choose the "touch up object tool",
- select the page,
- and click right to finally open the page in Illustrator!
... it's quicker to directly open the PDF in Illustrator.

• or it edits the selected objects in Illustrator... so, I have to select all the objects of the wanted logo, with the risk of missing some objects (especially in vectorized text), and having to re-do all the selection...
... it's quicker and safier to directly open the PDF in Illustrator, and suppress all the unneeded objects around the logo in Illustrator... and if I suppress something needed (by making a too wide selection), a simple "Apple Z" will cancel the mistake...

I totally believe you don't need (anymore) to use Illustrator for editing pdf files .

Yes, you're right, it's possible to extract a logo from a PDF without Illustrator: I can remove all the unneeded objects from the PDF using Acrobat with the PitStop tools, to keep only the logo, and then save my new PDF containing only the logo...

... but I'll finally get a PDF, thought I want an EPS file: sorry, but I prefer logos as EPS files than as PDF files:

- first, because I work with InDesign AND with XPress, and XPress is not so good with PDF,

- second, because I feel easier to re-open an EPS logo with Illustrator to modify it (to change for example CMYK colors to Pantone or to grayscales) than to have to do that job in Acrobat with PitStop,

- third, because PitStop is desperately slow... much slower than Illustrator!

- and fourth, because I'm a little bit "old school": I'm perhaps (or certainly) wrong, but in my mind the PDF format is more an output format than a working format for importing and editing... and I don't like to have to import PDF elements in my layouts.



For a logo-extraction, it's possible to do all the job with Acrobat and PitStop... but in MJNC case, do you really imagine filling the old basis with all the new stuff, new text, new photos, with PitStop???

(AFAIK, it would be possible with Neo...: a friend of mine using it said me that Neo is so powerful than it is almost possible to use it as a standalone DTP software, almost doing the same layout job than InDesign or XPress, but working directly in a PDF and using PDF as it's standard file format... almost... but the price is a little bit frightening )