InDesign - Transparency Effects not displaying in PDFs

[abccolor]

I am experiencing a situation where I have a Frame with a stroke and a multiply effect which does not display in the PDF. If the multiply effect is removed, the object displays in the PDF. (I am using the PDF/X-4 preset to create the PDF.)

Any new paths created within the document exhibit the same results.

If I create a Frame or Path in a NEW document, apply the stroke and multiply effect, and then copy and paste it into my first document, the pasted items display in the PDF without difficulty.

If I copy the troublesome Frame from the original document and paste it into a new document, it exhibits the same results (it will not display in the PDF). I then create a new Frame in the new document, on the same layer, and with the same attributes. When a PDF is created the troblesome Frame will not display, but the new Frame right next to it will.

I have preflighted the resulting PDF, and both Frames are listed in the Form XObjects. I can also use the selection tool the the Acrobat Plug-In PitStop to select the Frame which is not displayed.

1. Am I missing a setting which is object specific and is carried with the copy paste?

2. What else could be the cause of this situation?

I will provide the InDesign and PDF samples.

[DCurry]

I can confirm that I am seeing the same thing as you. I don't know what the reason is. I deleted the bad shape and duplicated the good one to get both to print if that helps.

[abccolor]

Thank you.

Unfortunately this is a simplified example from a much larger and complex document. I have seen this issue more than once and need to find the root cause.

[DCurry]

I just discovered that if during export you change compatibility to Acrobat 4 (PDF 1.3) the problem goes away. Unfortunately, this will flatten all your transparency, which may or may not be a problem for you depending on the job.

[abccolor]

Yes transparency is a must. I know I ask for the world, but I also know this should work correctly.... especially since the box next to it does.

I forgot to mention I am running Windows Vista 64 with Adobe CS4 and Acrobat 9 Professional.

[DCurry]

You're right - it should work as is and you are not asking too much.

Instead of using Multiply, can you achieve your desired effect by setting the frames to overprint?

[abccolor]

We are a firm of 300. Multiply is a standard part of our process, and it does work generally. My problem is that this document is exhibiting strange behavior and the full document would require recreation to get past this. Only a few hours work, but I have seen this problem before and need to understand why it is happening. If it is just a setting that i am unaware of, I can't have the designers recreate their work from a blank document.

Any new paths created within the (original) InDesign document exhibit the same results.
I will upload a copy of the original document with confidential content removed.

Thanks for your attention to this.

[DCurry]

I understand, but if the frame is black and you simply need it to overprint, Multiply is not the "proper" way to achieve it. Whether it is 1 person doing it wrong or 300 has no bearing - bad habits are bad habits.

For further proof, try this little test: In a new ID document, draw a box and fill it with 50% Cyan. Now, draw another box and fill it with 100% Black and make sure it is on top of and intersecting part of the cyan box. Set the Black box to Multiply. Now open up the Separations preview and turn off the visibility of the black plate and you will see that it is changing the value of the cyan where the 2 boxes intersect. A proper overprint would not do that. To see what a proper overprint would look like, change the black box back to Normal blending mode and use the Attributes palette to overprint the fill (or set your prefs as noted below to overprint all Black). Now look at your separations again and you will see that the cyan values do not change where the black overprints it.

If you set your InDesign preferences under Appearance of Black to Overprint Black Swatch at 100% then you won't have to worry about using Multiply in this instance.

However, if there are colors other than Black that need to Multiply it is not so easy.

Of course, none of this explains the strange behavior your file is exhibiting - I've never seen that issue before. Perhaps it is a bug or you had a corrupt file somewhere along the way and the problem has snowballed as documents get passed around and elements are copied/pasted from one to another.

I would recommend that you also post this issue over on the forums at b4print.com. They love this kind of thing over there (I'm also active there as well) and might see something that I missed.

[abccolor]

This is a very simplified example of exactly what is not working. The usage of the multiply is extensive using many colors and multiple layers of content. Like I had stated, this process works fine for us 99.9% of the time. It is only when someone comes to me with this problem that I need to fix it rather than having it re-done.

I have been able to change the state of the original file in that new content drawn on the artboard will now display while the old content still does not. As we speak I am investigating exactly what has changed.

Thank you for the b4print.com suggestion. I am on the Adobe Forum as well, and seem to be getting different feedback from both directions.

[DCurry]

I am eager to see how this plays out and if you find a solution, or at least a reason!