The transparency problem seems to be initiated by an interaction with other pages in the document. If I delete a range of pages, or move the troublesome page earlier in the document, I am able to create new transparen content that will display when PDF'ed, but the existing transparent content still exhibits the same problem.Somehow specific content on the page is retaining the characteristics from this interaction with the other pages. Content has been moved to another layer without success, and prior to the page move new content was created on another layer without success.
I have included the original 52 page InDesign document with all content removed except for some transparent objects on page 52. In this current state the existing objects and and new transparent objects will not display in the PDF.
I have included the original 52 page InDesign document with all content removed except for some transparent objects on page 52. In this current state the existing objects and and new transparent objects will not display in the PDF.
Your object does not disappear it is hidden by a corrupt clipping path!
Somehow you have a corrupt clipping path. Your object does exist in the PDF file. If you open the PDF in illustrator then you will see from the icon of the clipping path that something is wrong (a grey shape with no visible shape) How this has happened I don't know, as others have said using PDFx1 seems to not have this problem (possibly because the flattener has to resolve the clipping path).
If you select both objects in Acrobat using the touch-up tool then right click you can remove the clipping path, and your hidden object appears.Screen shot 2010-09-16 at 11.03.21.pngScreen shot 2010-09-16 at 11.03.33.png
It would take understanding your whole project to give you a full strategy for avoiding these issues. Yes I do agree it appears to be a bug, but to be able to solve it you would have to commit time and energy to define it.
Transparency does add complexity that I think none of us could forecast. For transparency logic to work there has to be underlying objects, and here is where problems begin when transparency is used rather than overprint. This is not the first time I see design speeding beyond what the intents of technology were. Making a technology totally stable takes allot of feed back to the engineers.
remember it is all 1's and 0's Try exporting to IDML or exchange then opening again, some times that can remove a corruption in a file.
Last edited by Lukas Engqvist; 09-16-2010 at 04:05 AM.
I see exactly what you are talking about with the 50% Black and the Multiply. But how you explained it isn't quite right.
The default of InDesign is to have "Overprint [Black] Swatch at 100%" checked. This means when the Black swatch is used at 100% it will overprint.
Setup:
Use the default "Overprint [Black] Swatch at 100%" checked
Create a 50% cyan frame.
Create a frame with the [Black] swatch at 100% which overlaps the cyan frame.
With separation preview on, place your cursor in the overlapped Cyan/Black area.
Cyan will show 50% and the Black 100%
Now select the Black Frame and make the effect Multiply.
Place your cursor in the overlapped area and look in the separation preview. Cyan is 75% and Black is 100%
You are getting an Overprint and a Multiply. The Overprint gets applied first and then the Multiply afterwords.
I was about ready to report on the same thing Lukas did
One thing I did notice, is that the actual clipping path is in the document, but it is 37 inches above the page when viewed within Illustrator.
What I found odd about the clipping path is that it is only a line with 2 points instead of a box with 4 points. The stranger part is when you are moving the line. It appears to be a box with 4 points and that are criss-crossed. One pyramid right side up and the other one upside down. But when you release the move, it moves and is only a line.
My first question to the designer would be. How did you get the shape into the InDesign document? ie, copy and paste from else where within InDesign, Illustrator, Corel Draw, etc. or Draw within InDesign
Perhaps the designer has some additional plug-ins within InDesign which could be creating the problem.
Gentlemen thank you so much for your help. Lukas I was looking forward to a response from either you or Gordo, but I know Gordo is more of the print guy.
The remove clip is an excellent fix suggestion and I hope to use it versus the recreate from blank document method. This will help me resolve the issue when it is brought to my attention, but I still hope to gain some understanding of the root cause.
In my post yeaterday I included the original 52 page document with all content removed from the pages with the exception of these sample shapes. Even with all of the additional content and layers deleted I am still experiencing the corruption. When I delete the additional pages, and then create a new object, no corruption is experienced with the new object.
Do we have any idea what what characteristics could be contained in the previous blank pages which would cause this corruption in the first place?
Peter Spier on the Adobe forum suggested the IDML or exchange idea, but that did not work.
@pcmodem - The designer used the pen tool and the frame tool with added anchor points to create the shapes. The stroke was added, the fill, and then multiply was activated.
I know I have dropped a puzzle on the table here, and their is probably an underlying InDesign bug, but at this point I would like to understand the combination creating this situation.
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Try exporting to IDML or exchange then opening again, some times that can remove a corruption in a file.
