CS6 PMS Values in CMYK vs CS5 PMS Values in CMYK

[leonardr]

Conclusion: things are a lot messier than I remembered them to be!

Not really.

IF you tell InDesign to color convert things, then it will color convert BOTH object colors AND their alternates.

If you tell InDesign to leave things alone, that means both object colors and their alternates.

IF you tell InDesign to make a PDF/X compliant file, then it will do so by whatever means are necessary (including color conversions, spot renaming, etc.).

[leonardr]

The question I uess I was not real good at asking is this multipe sources of the same spot color (specifically sources that use different CMYK values for this same spot as AI 8, CS, CS5) when place into ID CS6 as spot color PDF and or EPS, then published to PDF with a conversion to CMYK. Is the conversion guided by the placed EPS/PDF or by ID6.

Following my rules in the previous post...

IF you tell InDesign to convert colors as part of the export to PDF, then it will do so.

IF you are creating a "normal" PDF, then we don't merge or consolidate the spots in any way.

IF you are creating a PDF/X file, then we will do whatever we have to do in order to have it comply with the standard.

[David Milisock]

>we don't merge or consolidate the spots in any way.
The question still being will a spot color form AI 8 and AI CS6 placed into InDesign when converted convert differently due to conversion imformation embedded inthe PDf or EPS?

[leonardr]

The question still being will a spot color form AI 8 and AI CS6 placed into InDesign when converted convert differently due to conversion imformation embedded inthe PDf or EPS?

Yes, if the original files have different values then those values will be carried through in "normal" PDF - we will NOT change it.

ONLY IF you create a PDF/X file, will we consolidate the alternative values.

[rwillustrator]

Sorry I didn't discover this thread earlier. Just stumbled upon it.

The original issue that was raised in this thread is valid -- and is due to a decision that the Illustrator team made for CS6.

Open any document in Illustrator, and from the flyout menu in the Swatches panel, choose Spot Colors. The resulting dialog box shows two option -- LAB and CMYK. In all versions prior to CS6, the default setting was CMYK. In CS6, Adobe changed this to LAB.

The reason for this is that with LAB color definitions, you'll see more accurate depictions of the colors in composite proofs and on screen. The danger is that if you choose to convert your spot colors to process, you're getting a LAB > CMYK conversion and not the CMYK book values.

While "technically", Adobe is correct in assuming that designers really shouldn't be using the Solid Pantone library for choosing PMS colors that will eventually be converted to CMYK later in the workflow (they should be using the Pantone Color Bridge for that), Adobe is equally incorrect in assuming that designers actually DO the correct behavior.

The pros of this decision is that composite proofs and on-screen proofing is far more accurate. The cons of this decision is that you run the risk of color shifts when converting Solid PMS colors to process (either in Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat, etc).

Mordy

[David Milisock]

Sorry I didn't discover this thread earlier. Just stumbled upon it.

The original issue that was raised in this thread is valid -- and is due to a decision that the Illustrator team made for CS6.

Open any document in Illustrator, and from the flyout menu in the Swatches panel, choose Spot Colors. The resulting dialog box shows two option -- LAB and CMYK. In all versions prior to CS6, the default setting was CMYK. In CS6, Adobe changed this to LAB.

The reason for this is that with LAB color definitions, you'll see more accurate depictions of the colors in composite proofs and on screen. The danger is that if you choose to convert your spot colors to process, you're getting a LAB > CMYK conversion and not the CMYK book values.

While "technically", Adobe is correct in assuming that designers really shouldn't be using the Solid Pantone library for choosing PMS colors that will eventually be converted to CMYK later in the workflow (they should be using the Pantone Color Bridge for that), Adobe is equally incorrect in assuming that designers actually DO the correct behavior.

The pros of this decision is that composite proofs and on-screen proofing is far more accurate. The cons of this decision is that you run the risk of color shifts when converting Solid PMS colors to process (either in Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat, etc).

Mordy

I believe Adobe was forced to do this, Corel did this 3 years ago. Yes conversions aremore accurate but in my opinion the best reason for this is that this should be the final move. These conversion specs have changed so often that there was a need for a final target LAB is the best choice, still the transitions have been painful!

[Lukas Engqvist]

Nobody mentioned that both Pantone and CMYK are device & substrate dependent. But we're all assuming that… yes?

[Lukas Engqvist]

AFAIK, the spots in placed PDFs (or EPSs) are NOT remapped during "normal" PDF export - they would be left alone. So if you had CMYK-based alternates in the original and then exported, you would still have CMYK-based alternates. Also, if you have different spots of the same name, they will also be left alone.

HOWEVER, if you are exporting to PDF/X (any flavor), THEN we will remap (and consolidate) the Spots due to the PDF/X rules.

Actually not entirely true. If you place one PDF with a red square called "My Colour" and then a second PDF/EPS with "My Colour" where this time it is green both will be red in the PDF, but if you print on a non PDF/PS compatible printer you will get your original colours (unless simulating overprint). I can send a file if you like Skärmavbild 2012-11-20 kl. 20.32.47.pngSkärmavbild 2012-11-20 kl. 20.32.58.png