Apogee Moving from 2.5 to 6

[gastonpresente]

Hi everyone,

Need some help, we are "forced" to move from apogee 2.5 to 6. We cant buy an actualization in between, of course for Agfa Commecial Policies (no technical difficulties).
I have 2 questions:

1) Apart from the financial furt, we are going to suffer anything in the process?

2) Can we use other software, even though we have Afga CTPs?

Thanks for your time,

Gaston

[DonBlock]

You have many other options for a RIP / WorkFlow. What CTP do you have?

[gastonpresente]

Originally Posted by DonBlock

You have many other options for a RIP / WorkFlow. What CTP do you have?

Hi Don,

We have Afga CTP Galileo VS (violet)

Thanks for helping

Gaston

[destryer]

Having moved from 2.1 to 3.5 then to 5 and soon to move to AP 6 you are looking at a quantum leap improvement in your Apogee system. I think you will really like the performance in the performance -except the financial hurt!

[gastonpresente]

Originally Posted by destryer

Having moved from 2.1 to 3.5 then to 5 and soon to move to AP 6 you are looking at a quantum leap improvement in your Apogee system. I think you will really like the performance in the performance -except the financial hurt!

Thanks for your comment. So there is not going to be any tech difficult (apart from the learning process)?
Any coment on Prinergy? Can it be connected to a CTP?

[kyle]

We upgraded from Series 3 to ApogeeX 3.5, then 4, now at :Apogee :Prepress :Version :5 (hopefully senselessly prepended colons do not nauseate you). Overall, the improvement is significant. Version 3.5 wasn't much faster software-wise, but the time spent per job was a lot less because we went from one slow machine to two fast machines (one main server plus a satellite that RIPs concurrently). There was a definite speed improvement when they added an APPE engine as an alternative to CPSI, so non-Postscript PDF input does not have to be internally converted to Postscript, and it will usually take live transparency without complaint. This reduces trapping problems with flattened transparency, and you can generate PDF files that are usually smaller, process faster and better, and are more editable with Pitstop.

We had both Series 3 and ApogeeX 3.5 running at the same time for about three months, and there were a few jobs that would process with Series 3 but not with ApogeeX, but overall ApogeeX handled files better. The interface is of the eye-candy icon type, which is better or worse depending upon personal preference.


And now for the complaints:

Input files for each job must now be given to the RIP to store in its database, whereas before they were merely referenced by name and location. When I have a single PDF file with pages that are printed in different sections on three different presses, I now have to either upload all of the pages to all three jobs, wasting time and hard drive space, or split the PDF file into separate files to upload to each job.

You can no longer easily control what changes the RIP will make to an existing job; sometimes it reprocesses pages for no obvious reason leaving you hoping they still match what you've already proofed. If we have a job with 4 inks on the first flat and just black on 15 other flats, I have to send 4 inks for all 16 flats and then delete the unused inks in Printdrive, or make a separate job for the first flat and combine in Printdrive. If we didn't use DQS, I could create two separate "flows," one for the first flat and one for the other fifteen. With Series 3, it was just a matter of submitting the first flat, then turning off CMY and submitting the others.

Archiving takes about eight hours for a few hundred jobs, whereas with Series 3 it was just a matter of keeping the small QJT file.


Apogee can output either to Printdrive or directly to a platesetter. If you have Printdrive, I suggest you keep it (most upgraded shops have). If you plate from Printdrive, you should be able to use any RIP capable of outputting TIFF files, though it would probably mean an upgraded license for your Printdrive to accept TIFF input.

[DonBlock]

Kyle is correct. Provided you have Printdrive, you should be able to use any workflow that can output a one bit tiff. Even just a new Harlequin RIP will do that for you. Look at the products offered from Xitron. They have a full range of products that are very good with our breaking the bank.

[Jon Morgan]

Originally Posted by kyle

Input files for each job must now be given to the RIP to store in its database, whereas before they were merely referenced by name and location. When I have a single PDF file with pages that are printed in different sections on three different presses, I now have to either upload all of the pages to all three jobs, wasting time and hard drive space, or split the PDF file into separate files to upload to each job.

If we have a job with 4 inks on the first flat and just black on 15 other flats, I have to send 4 inks for all 16 flats and then delete the unused inks in Printdrive, or make a separate job for the first flat and combine in Printdrive. If we didn't use DQS, I could create two separate "flows," one for the first flat and one for the other fifteen.

Archiving takes about eight hours for a few hundred jobs, whereas with Series 3 it was just a matter of keeping the small QJT file.

Hi Kyle,

Apogee 6 might be worth a look to you. In 6, they have a new feature called Products where with a single job flow you can output a job to different presses (each with their own processing requirements) by allocating each page in your run list to a product you define (e.g. cover, body, text, etc.). Unfortunately, Products is not compatible with PrintDrive DQS (but can be used with PrintDrive via flat workflow). I've attached a PDF that shows this new feature and what it looks like.

The problem you describe with having to delete unused colors on PrintDrive kinda baffles me. In the PrintDrive TP, there is a checkbox labeled, "Do not output empty separations." With that checked, you should not have to delete unused colors at PrintDrive. Do you have this box checked?

When you say that archiving takes about eight hours for a few hundred jobs, do you put an Archive or Keep Result action on the Renderer or something? In Apogee 5 and now 6, I have archived several hundred jobs, and at the longest, it took about 20 minutes.

Cheers,
Jon Morgan
Hopkins Printing

[bjk]

Originally Posted by kyle

And now for the complaints:

Input files for each job must now be given to the RIP to store in its database, whereas before they were merely referenced by name and location. When I have a single PDF file with pages that are printed in different sections on three different presses, I now have to either upload all of the pages to all three jobs, wasting time and hard drive space, or split the PDF file into separate files to upload to each job.
.

There is such thing as public page store in apogee whereby pages uploaded to this are available to all jobs.

And as mention before version 6 has the new products functionality which is great for job with different processes for different sheets ie CMYK & gray, different plate sizes 4up cover printed work & turn 8up text just as an example

[gastonpresente]

Hi again,

Thanks for every advise, they are really helpfull.
The change we are going to make is from

ApogeeX Commercial 2.5 a :Apogee Automate 6.0

I being searching the net, Agfas web page, etc, etc.....

and i want to be sure that the Automate 6.0 includes everything you are saying, thats correct?
we use to have a server that was called normalizer that convert everything in pdf without errors, this application continues in the following versions?

Thanks a lot

Gaston