GCR and Color Management...What software????

[VLFPrepressMN]

I am looking at two solutions for GCR in our company. GMG InkOptimizer and Alwan Color Hub. We currently use GMG ColoProof and GMG DotProof for our proofing. We have several presses on the floor ranging from small flexo to an 81" KBA 6 Color. The press count is 13 total so we go through a lot of metal and a ton of ink, conventional, Hybrid UV and UV. I myself worked for a print supplies distribution company doing installs of Alwan, GMG ColoProof, G7 press calibration and workflow installs. I know the tools and complexity of ACH as it pertains to GCR and ACH works very well in that regard. I have not worked with GMG InkOptimizer nor have I been trained on that product. We are very close to pulling the trigger on ACH but a recent test has stalled the project.

We have may customers that supply their own proofs. We want to do a color space transformation convert the file into the customer's color space. This way we can proof the file through GMG using a GRACoL MX4 (or MX5 in Flexo), then plate the job using curves established at press and not sacrifice the color integrity. The customer sent us a proof with an IT8 chart on that same proof so the data captured from the IT8 is a direct correlation to the status of the proofer the day the client's proof was made. That process is rather simple, and we used ACH to do this but the results were less than desired. The flesh tones went from neutral to yellow. The other areas of the piece looked nicer but the flesh tones were poor at best. Let's just say that if a customer was flying in for a press check, it would be embarassing to show that color.

My question is to all, What's better GMG InkOptimizer or Alwan Color Hub and why? I am hoping to see some GMG users chime in since I am so unfamiliar with that product. I know GolorProof very well and know that the iteration to do a color match is easy and the results are consistantly exceeding expectations of customers I have worked with.

On a sidebar, the ink savings we can expect is just a bonus. The real scope of this project is color space transformation. Any information would be much appreciated.

Mark

[Louis Dery]

Originally Posted by VLFPrepressMN

I am looking at two solutions for GCR in our company. GMG InkOptimizer and Alwan Color Hub.

My question is to all, What's better GMG InkOptimizer or Alwan Color Hub and why? I am hoping to see some GMG users chime in since I am so unfamiliar with that product. I know GolorProof very well and know that the iteration to do a color match is easy and the results are consistantly exceeding expectations of customers I have worked with.

On a sidebar, the ink savings we can expect is just a bonus. The real scope of this project is color space transformation. Any information would be much appreciated.

Mark

Hi Mark,
What is your RIP workflow?
Have you evaluated the possibility to use DeviveLink (GCR and TAC reduction) profiles right into your RIP workflow in order to simplify the process?

Louis

[VLFPrepressMN]

Nexus 9 is what we use

[meddington]

Ive tested GMG colorserver (not ink optimizer) and Alwan CH. from a lowest delta e perspective, GMG was the winner, but by a negligible margin (both achieved under 1.5 delta e toward the target data). Image quality was good for both, and I didn't notice any issues with fleshtones with Alwan as you mentioned. From a verstility perspective, Alwan was the clear winner, honoring embedded profiles and generating DVLs on the fly.

But Louis is right in that if you have the ability to implement DVLs in your current workflow, you might see what can be done there before making a sizable investment.

[mattbeals]

If you do decided to go with device links in you workflow it is very easy to apply device links to PDF's using Callas pdfToolbox 4 plug-in and pdfToolbox Server 4. Callas has been supporting them for quite a while. Enfocus has recently added support for device links too. With either product you can select images and apply different device links to those versus other objects.

I've built configurations with Callas where you can "dynamically" apply device link profiles. It's nothing like what Alwan does. But with this configuration we can get similar functionality. Let me know if you'd like some more information.

[Louis Dery]

Originally Posted by mattbeals

If you do decided to go with device links in you workflow it is very easy to apply device links to PDF's using Callas pdfToolbox 4 plug-in and pdfToolbox Server 4. Callas has been supporting them for quite a while. Enfocus has recently added support for device links too. With either product you can select images and apply different device links to those versus other objects.

I've built configurations with Callas where you can "dynamically" apply device link profiles. It's nothing like what Alwan does. But with this configuration we can get similar functionality. Let me know if you'd like some more information.

Hi Matt,
About Callas pdfToolbox Server 4, is it possible to use (apply) custom ICC devicelink profile?
What do you mean about "dynamically" apply DLP?
About Enfocus Pitstop Pro 8, does it apply devicelink profile per selected object only OR is it possible to apply devicelink to the whole PDF document in one step?

Louis

[mattbeals]

Call me on my cell phone, 206-618-2537. I can't type it all on this damned BlackBerry.

[Louis Dery]

Originally Posted by mattbeals

Call me on my cell phone, 206-618-2537. I can't type it all on this damned BlackBerry.

Hi Matt,

It is not an urgent question! I will wait for your answers whenever you will have access to your true keyboard.
Thanks!
Louis

[mattbeals]

With either tool you can ask it to find specific profiles and create a condition that says "if you find US Web Coated SWOP then apply "SWOP to ISO Coated" (or what ever device link you want)". To be "more correct" you would ask for specific obkject types, such as images, and apply an appropriate dlp. You would have to create a series of these to have the correct conversion applied. If the embedded OI or one of the embedded profiles did NOT match a condition then nothing would happen unless you tell the configuration what to do for any other ICC or non ICC space.

With Callas it is more friendly to build this specific kind of logic. PitStop has very powerful logic in the action lists but that power comes at a somewhat steep price for most people. If you just want to blast the document indiscriminently then PitStop makes it super easy. Callas has prebuilt logic for applying one dlp to specific object types. You can select images, non-images (something to that affect) and everything. To do the "dynamic" dlp application in Callas you need to build the logic first as an "inspect" function, the build the processing logic based on the selection logic. Much easier than it sounds, it really is. PitStop is more difficult.

I'm working on getting Callas to build the dlp's on the fly based on the OI, then the embedded profiles, the assumed profiles. The tools are pretty much there already with Callas. With a few interface tweaks you could do some customization. The reason I want to go this way is that most of the predefined dlp's aren't very applicable to the majority of end users. Now the bundled slp's are very high quality,but again they don't mean much to the average user. To get the "dynamic" profiles in pdfToolbox we will most likely sacrifice some flexibility in terms of tweaking the profiles before hand. But the overall impact will be greater in general I think because the barriers for adoption will be lower. And if you do have situations where you need to use a well crafted dlp then you still have the ability to do so in the base product as well as in PitStop.

Again, these would not have all the logic and power of Alwan. But it might be that happy medium that general users want (and need) without the high end price (or high end features) of a true color server like Alwan and other similar products.

What do you think?

[Robert Camberlain]

It's turning a lot of heads in the newspaper world and is now being reconized with a lot of web press users and commercial shops. Works in any workflow that accepts in device link profiles.

• 10 to 25 percent ink savings
• Reduced make-ready times/faster startups
• Less fan-out or web growth
• Improved appearance when press misregistration occurs
• Faster drying
• Higher printing speeds