Pantone books for CMYK and choosing correct color profile?

[livingc]

I am new to some of these color management issues.... Which color management profile is the BEST to use with Pantone books or should I use no color management at all? If color management is used, it needs to be set in Photoshop, Illustrator, and then InDesign as that is my final output before exporting to PDF. There are several online printers I'm evaluating to print with who use a variety of profiles: GRACo, SWOP, U.S. Sheetfed... Also, important to note, I am using the color bridge books as a more accurate reference than my monitor since it is not calibrated and since I understand that monitors are not a good match for paper output. I need to know how a CMYK color tint will turn out when it's printed and the Bridge set is what I have to reference by for now.

Any thoughts or recommendations would be much appreciated!
Thank you!

[encompus]

If you choose to define a color in a document as "spot" rather than "process" then it does not matter what profile you choose. If you choose to set your color as "process" then the CMYK numbers are totally dependent on the profile you choose so choose wisely. It's best to talk to your printer because it may be better to set your color as a "spot" even though it may be printed as 4 color process. Modern PrePress departments have the ability to convert to CMYK from spot in the RIP process so you don't have to. Also, remember that Photoshop TIF. JPEG, and PSD files do not actually allow you to set a color as a true "spot". You would have to save the document as a DCS2 File in order to set a color as spot. If you need more help let me know.

Marc

[livingc]

Marc,

Thank you for your reply, Marc!

When you say "dependent on the profile you use," that is exactly my difficulty. I'm trying to determine this. Some of the online printers I'm looking at printing at use a GRACoL profile, some use U.S. Sheetfed, etc (and only one of them seem to offer pms solid, so I need to do CMYK). When I called, some of them didn't have an answer for me in terms of what color profile they need me to set. They just told me to do CMYK and see if what's on my monitor is what I want. My monitor isn't calibrated yet. And, the best way I know how to more accurately predict what the end result will be is to use a printed swatch reference.

So, I have Pantone Bridge. I picked a yellow-gold color (not metallic) and input those % values in to my Illustrator and InDesign swatches. In Photoshop, I filled my image background with this same % combination. So, everything that was the "solid" yellow-gold color input the same %.

When it came back from the online printer, it was more yellow-ish and saturated. Quite off.

What did I do wrong? Is there a color profile in the Adobe suites that works best with the Pantone books? ISO-12647-2 (FOGRA27 / 28 / 29) // should I expect the same amount of accuracy if I use Pantone book percentages and output with a color profile for GRACoL?

Thanks!
Chloe

[encompus]

Chloe,

Have you asked if you could specify the color as spot even though the job will be printed as process? Most newer workflows can convert to CMYK based on a plate curve or ICC Profile in the RIP. Usually this gives the best results. The CMYK values in the Bridge are only good for a press which adheres to the same conditions as in the technical notes in the Bridge. We use a local printer here in San Diego that does not use a custom profile (They use U.S. Sheetfed Coated CMYK.icc) however we get the best results when we specify colors are spot and then they convert to CMYK via Rampage - that way we don't have to.

Marc

[Werby]

Hey Chloe

Marc has a good point that you should try to find a printer who is comfortable doing spot color simulation for you. They will probably get as close to the visual appearance of the actual spot as they can, which is going to be your best bet for getting a particular color.

The only really reliable way to do it is to have some kind of proofing which actually represents how a given printer will print. If they say they can match GRACoL, you not only need to convert the spot to process using the GRACoL profile (GRACoL2006_coated1, available at gracol.org), you need some way of seeing how that will look. Every set of CMYK numbers will look different when printed under different conditions, and as Marc said, the Bridge book is only useful for printers who print under the exact conditions that the book was printed under.

If you calibrate and profile your monitor, you can get a fairly accurate representation using the soft-proof function of Photoshop. Although a screen will never look EXACTLY like a printed sheet, it can be quite close. The other option is get or make a "certified" proof that has been output to match a print condition like GRACoL or SWOP_coated3 (or whatever the printer says they print to). Once you get a reliable proofing setup, you can just use the Pantone process guide as a starting point, then try variations on that formula until you get the color you want. Most Pantone colors can't be reproduced with CMYK inks anyway, so it is more about getting the color that works for you than getting something you see in a swatch book.

The key to this working is that the printer must be able to accurately and repeatably print to a certain visual target. If they are not consistent, you will never be able to get the same color twice. If you can't afford to create or purchase an accurate proof, perhaps one of the printers can supply you with a swatch book of how certain CMYK combinations will print. Or if they are cheap enough, you you could have them print a swatch book that you create!

Good Luck!

[livingc]

wow. that's an idea i never thought of... make my own swatch book - if they are cheap enough. you guys have some excellent advice!!! maybe my own GRACoL swatch book (and take note of the printer's other specs such as their paper, etc.)

i asked one of the online printers about if i used a color from the solid spot pantone library that they would indeed do the conversion to the CMYK on their end. only thing is they don't have a pantone book. So, I will need to ask some other printers and make sure they have a pantone printed reference book on their end.

what's the best source where to learn to calibrate my monitor? at work i have a pc lcd. At home i have a mac powerbook (summer 2005).

thanks again!
chloe

[phil taz]

For the record, .psd and .tif DO support spot colour, you do not need to save as DCS2, that is an old workflow (IMO).

[livingc]

oh, thanks. i won't stress about that then. i'll just grayscale it, and change the mode to monotone. Then pick my solid spot swatch from the color library. and save out the tif.

thanks again!! i'm open to more comments on this thread topic, if you have other thoughts.

chloe

[phil taz]

That's correct, but making it monotone will bring the colour definition with it from Photoshop, which may be different (in spelling) to a colour you may already be using in Indesign, so it may be more convenient to greyscale, import and then colourise in InDesign.