Changes to Same as Source Printing in Acrobat 9

[leonardr]

Originally Posted by Matt Richards

Additionally, when we investigate PS files in the Wasatch, we see PostScript Comments such as:

A) Submitted from Acrobat 7:
%Creator: PScript5.dll Version 5.2.2
4 RGB images present
1 CMYK images present

B) Submitted from Acrobat 9:
%Creator: Adobe Acrobat 9.1.0
0 RGB images present
5 CMYK images present

This too seems to suggest that there is something very different going on with 7 and 9.

I don't know anything about this "Wasatch" program, but we took at look at the Postscript files that you had previously posted and it was quite interesting to note a difference in the A9 and A7 output files in how the colors are tagging (or not).

Both files had the same RGB vs CMYK behavior. However, the A7 output didn't have any calibrated color. It looks like A7 SAS printing stripped off the color profiles while A9 SAS printing passes-through the embedded profiles.

You can also verify this (as I did) by taking those same .ps files back through Distiller using a JobOptions settings where color is set to "no changes" and then checking the PDFs. You will find that in the PDF based on the A7 output, both rects are now device colors while the converted A9 output file is still 100% ICC-based.

This would therefore imply that the problem is NOT in Acrobat, but is in the way your RIP is configured to handle calibrated vs device color. Can you check what/how your RIP handles such things? As I mentioned earlier, not all RIPs fully support "Postscript color management" or Adobe's extensions for included profiles - and that may be what you are seeing here and why you didn't see it with Acrobat 7.

Hope that helps!

Leonard

[Matt Richards]

Holy smokes Leonard. I cant tell you how much that helps. Why didn't I think about the Distiller check on the PS files?!?! Brilliant.

I had supposed that Acrobat 9 had indeed changed the way that it was handling SAS, but that it was probably a change for the better, and that the RIP manufacturer (Wasatch) was the one with no idea what was going on.

I am going to check into how the RIP handles these situations. You may very well be right that it is not built to handle fully ICC-color managed artwork.

Again, thank you so much. This is an amazing help. I will post back with my findings after having talked to Wasatch.

Matt

[Matt Richards]

UPDATE:

We have run through the following steps to verify the output from Acrobat 9 (A9) and compare it to that of Acrobat 7 (A7).

1. Created an InDesign artboard with two vector rectangles. One is RGB (AdobeRGB (1998)) and the other is CMYK (US Web Coated (SWOP) v2). The color numbers were 255,0,0 and 0,100,100,0 respectively.

2. Exported a PDF with the settings below. These settings yield a PDF with the two rectangles colored and tagged as they are on the InDesign artboard (mixed color modes)
- Version 1.5 (Acrobat 6)
- No Color Conversion
- Include All Profiles

3. This PDF was then opened in A7 and A9 and printed to two PS files, specifying the HP5500 driver, and SAS in the Advanced print settings.

4. These two PS files were then distilled using a .joboptions file that specified “No Color Conversion.”

5. The result was that the PS file from A7 generated a PDF with DeviceCMYK only, and the A9 PS file yielded a PDF with both vector rectangles colored and tagged properly with AdobeRGB (1998) and US Web Coated (SWOP) v2.

As such, we can see that Adobe did make a change, but it was a change for the better. A9 is an improvement over A7 in that it provides true pass-through color via SAS printing, and preserves all embedded ICC profiles in a mixed color mode print submission. This is in comparison to A7, which did not honor these profiles, and seems to have done a conversion to DeviceCMYK/RGB when artwork was submitted SAS.

This would therefore imply that the problem is NOT Acrobat, but may be in the way the Wasatch RIP is configured to handle ICC vs device color.

I must say, I have been very, very pleased with Adobe's response to this issue. We are in the process of coordinating with a handful of Acrobat engineers (who focus on output and color management) to verify the test above and try to identify what might be going on once the data has left Acrobat.

A question for the group: Might it be that the underlying PS level used by the RIP is PS2, and that the ICC profiles are not being converted to PS CSAs because it is not a P3 RIP?

Unfortunately, the RIP manufacturer (Wasatch) has been less-than-helpful, and turnaround on their support is often more than 24 hours. As such, I can't even find out the basic information about this product, like what level of PS it supports, or how they are configured to handle ICC managed color, if at all!

Thanks to everyone for your help. Any thoughts on the question above are appreciated. I will be sure to update the group as we learn more about what is going on.

Thanks again,

Matt

[rich apollo]

Matt,
The configuration of the Wasatch RIP software's color controls is up to the user - it is ICC aware, though. According to the specs (on their website) the software supports PostScript level 3.

I Distilled the PostScript files you posted and got RGB and CMYK in both resulting PDFs. The difference I found is that the output from Acrobat 7 created PDFs with no ICC Profile - the output from Acrobat 9 led to PDFs that had ICC Profiles embedded. It looks like there's information in the PostScript file that will retrieve the ICC profiles when needed. If the profiles aren't available, then I guess the CSAs are used. For example, if I uninstall the ICC Profiles before Distilling the PostScript, I get appropriate color, but no ICC Profiles in the PDF.

The output has changed from Acrobat 7 to Acrobat 9, and I guess the question is, "How is the RIP handling the new instructions?" Are you expecting the RGB and CMYK rectangles, from your example, to match on the printed piece? Or are you trying to achieve the same output that you got from Acrobat 7?

Your RIP may have been assuming different source profiles than what are currently being embedded. You may also need to be sure that the appropriate profiles are (or are not) installed on the Wasatch box. Lastly, you may wish to set up Wasatch to disregard embedded ICC Profiles - as it looks like it didn't have any embedded profiles to make use of before. If you want the rectangles to match one another I believe you'll have to set up a Simulation Profile for the RGB elements.