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I got badly burnt on display stuff about 4 years back. Recommnded a display that was a disaster. Did I bone up after that!
Everything is a price/performance curve. No point in talking EIZO if they are always going to be out-of-budget. Uninformed, and uninforABLE, bosses, are notorious for going el Cheapo. Having said that, there are ways.
Currently, IMHO, the best bang-for-buck is the DELL U2410, (not to be confused with the G2410, which has a crap TN panel). For around US$600, or less if you prowl, you are getting a 12-bit color H-IPS display, (not S-IPS). 1.07 Billion colors. They have factory (hardware/firmware set), sRGD and AdobeRGB presets).
Dell UltraSharp™ U2410 24"W Monitor | Dell Australia
At least you might have a chance in the average prepress dept. of obtaining one. 16:10 ratio. 24". Yes, DELL do mostly crap/mass-market TNs, but don't let this put you off. Go and visit flatpanels, and see what they say, (Shawn's link).
If you want to step up from there, price-wise, NEC 2090UXi, or similar. Then after that its the EIZOs, Qs whatever. Sky's the limit from there, price-wise, but am talking reality here, and assuming worker-grunt prepress op. conditions. The NECs come in with Multi-Sync., at about US$1500, I think, with the necessary software to keep things within range.
Bear in mind too, many of the EIZOs are PVA, or at least variations on the patterned vertical alignment technology. Nice deep, contrasy blacks, but can be problematic in the viewing angle. IPS have great viewing angle tolerances. I prefer the advantage in viewing angle, personally.
The field has changed a lot in the past 2 years. Many more options open. IMO, Apple have used Apple Mambo in regard to their displays. Yes, I do believe Apple use an LG-Phillips IPS panel, but I think that is only found out from tear-downs. They are famous for NOT telling punters what's in their displays. I don't believe they offer value-for-money, against units like the U2410. I would certainly be looking at an NEC before an ACD, which is in that price-bracket. Going back several years, Apple were putting whatever panel in ACDs that they effing well felt like, but, to my knowledge, they NEVER disclose what panel is in them. Other vendors do.
Whatever you get, fork out the $200 or so for say, a Spyder3 puck. At least you'll have made an effort to calibrate. I believe it is not possible to set White Point on an ACD. I could be wrong on this, and am looking into it at the moment.
Whatever else you do, do not buy a display with a TN panel in it, (the mass market cheapie). They have 4-bit color, and use 'dithering' to achieve a visual result. When you read 16.2 Million colors, that's dithered. When you read 16.7 million colors, that should be 8-bit...genuine 16.7 mill. Of course, that's a lot less than 1.07 billion, (DELL U2410).
I'd be wary of iMacs. They are really 'home' units. There is a thread on Aussie Whirlpool forums at the moment where about 35% of poll respondents report color problems that they feel bad enough to waste a llot of time getting looked at...with all the usual palaver involved in warranty claims. Also, they put a glossy cover on it. Why? So that when people walk into shops, they go "Wow!" That euphoria lasts about a week, I'd say. Colors are way-oversaturated. You get ambient light reflections....Not for any kind of pp work where color matters.
All I could talk them into here, at the time, was a DELL 2007FP. But a nice enough S-IPS display with a pixel-pitch just above 0.24 from memory. It is now discontinued. But as I look at it this moment, it is handling the fine face on this forum no trouble. Color rendition pretty good. It has been a reliable work-horse for the price, but would love one of those U2410s.
Last edited by frailer; 06-29-2010 at 08:26 PM.
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Although the Danes at flatpanels gave the DELL U2410 a glowing review, there seems to be a bit of an undercurrent of discontent in regard to reports of some colour inconsistency across the display, from SOME people. How many, is very hard to tell. 1%..10%, impossible to know. So have been back on the research trail, and am posting some links in regard to the NEC 2090UXi. Pretty sure NEC do their own panels, as they are huge across the range...right up to multi-screen wall imaging; stuff like that.
I personally tested a 2090UXi, when an op. we had got testy about flickering on a CRT. When it was calibrated, it was a knockout. But at the time it wasn't holding calibration in the testing situation...a longer story. Well, after a dummy spit from op. in question, ended up with an ACD, which we still have.
What has happened now is that direct hardware calibration is now possible in the form of SpectraView II software, (see links below). There is a really good run-down on the difference between calibration via the graphics card vs. direct hardware calibration (to the display itself). As the blurb says, this has previously only been available in $2000 + displays like some EIZOs and the NEC SpectraViews.
As soft proofing/remote proofing becomes more prevalent, pp ops will need to be more conversant with display accuracy...and maintaining it.
The long and short? For around AU$1300 you have a top qual display+puck+software that will give you VERY good colour accuracy. It's an interesting FYI. About twice the cost of the DELL U2410, but in a totally different league. But about half as much as the hardware calibrated EIZOs and NEC SpectraViews, which previously were the entry choice.
NEC 2090XUi Monitor at Image Science
NEC SpectraView 2 Direct Hardware Calibration System for NEC MultiSync Monitors
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At the risk of being accused of serial posting, here is an essential read for people thinking about display upgardes.
Monitors For High Quality Imaging Work
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Extensive Calibration Controls - Good monitors must have extensive controls for adjusting their picture to appropriate targets. Most importantly is a brightness control that can drop a monitor's display down to a reasonable level to simulate paper - this is where many consumer monitors fail absolutely. For example, the current iMac 24" screen has a minimum brightness of 250 cd/m2 (and out of the box they are a truly retina destroying 400 cd/m2!). This is ridiculous and a huge fundamental failing for image makers - an approximate recommendation for most working environments for print production work, would be brightness of around 90 to 110 cd/m2. This means the iMac is, at best, two and a half times brighter than it should be to simulate paper - and there's no physical control to adjust this. With a 24" iMac you will forever find your prints seem darker than your screen - and there is nothing you can do to fix this (except buy a much better external screen - thankfully the iMac has video output port!).
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hmm the valididty of 250 cd/m2 being "twice as bright" as 90-110 cd is questionable, since cd/m2 is not a linear scale. The 90-110 cd/m2 was an old measurement from the time of CRT if I'm not mistaken.
Also part of it was that you didn't want to burn out the phosphors so you kept the monitor subdued for longer life expectancy, of the monitor.
What value you aim for depends on your working environment. Is the monitor in a brightly lit room or a dimly lit one. Before the colour correction was carried out in a darkened room.
120-140 is not uncommon targets for LCD's, in a bright room even higher. Where 400 cd/m2 is "retina destroying" i don't know.
Try to go to a fair where you can see for yourself. Also a perfect delta score is no good if it is dependant on you being in one specific position, especially if you are planning do discuss colour on screen with a client.
Check the monitor with a grey gradient to see if you have banding or colour shifts.
Learn your monitors limitations.
One thing you might consider is doing a colour blind test like the munzel on X-rite page, no point cashing out if your operator is colour blind anyway
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"Retina destroying"... the writer's Australian; there's tongue-in-cheek humour involved. Sorry you missed it. Even in cloudy Melbourne, they manage humour pretty well.
Presumably you would do your setup in an ambient light environment that would not be changing significantly through the working day, or you would hope so, and take that into account. The last time I looked at the NECs, they had auto ambient light adjustment, but I's need to check on that.
Fair enough, a non-arithmetic scaling, and not a good way for him to describe it. But I'd hate to throw the baby out with the bathwater on this, on a technicality.
You are obviously someone who can work with high-end displays, and I assume you are not for a moment endorsing the use of iMacs, certainly in our situation. My battle here is to try and convince our uninformed head-office purse-holders that buying iMacs for content-creation destined for hi-qual coated stock, (entertainment publishing...people paying reasonable money to buy the product), is a very short-sighted and wrong decision. I know you're not suggesting that for a moment. If just a handful of people reading this stop and have a rethink on iMacs for prepress, I'll gladly oversell the case, at any time.
Meanwhile, I retreat to gird my loins again for battle with them. Wish me luck. I'll need it.
Last edited by frailer; 07-05-2010 at 12:28 AM.
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I'm certainly a fan of Eizo's, but for reasons departing from color accuracy, I love the Cintiq21ux. Certainly not geared as a high end color monitor, but I have had it pass the requirements for SWOP Monitor Proofing Certification (using Babelcolor PatchTool and an i1 pro). Behind me sits an Eizo CG220 that gets infrequent use for color work as the tablet features of the Cintiq are too good to pass up, and color accuracy has not been a profound issue. Not necessarily recommending, just sayin.
That said, Eizo's new CG245w...self calibrating? Nice.
EIZO / Videos / EIZO / Videos / ColorEdge CG245W on Macwelt TV
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Eizo CG series and NEC Spectraviews are my favourites for the job. NEC Spectraview was the first monitor to get the Fogra certificate. Now Eizo CG243 has the same pre certification as the whole NEC Spectraview line.
Fogra certification � Colour Process
Last edited by Johu; 07-12-2010 at 03:32 AM.
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Quato Displays
 Originally Posted by mattbeals
Last year at Print we had Quato monitors at the Enfocus/Callas/Elpical/DMP booth. They were gorgeous. During the slow times we played Monty Python and The Holy Grail for passers by. The killer rabbit never looked so good...
In all seriousness though, the monitor was gorgeous.
Thank you so much for the compliments on your experience with the Quato Displays. My company sent these to your group headed by Tom Peire of FourPees and Frank Loversky of
tools4media.
Had the same at Dalim, where they were also watching football when it was slow.....
We are the importer of the Quato products to the Americas.
Grafix World LLC
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