Color Consistency

[NLprintguy]

This is a straight question, just wanting some professional experienced opinions.
Is there any printing press or digital printer that will print the same thing over and over (couple thousand sheets a day) and maintain its color consistency? Has anyone experienced this? Is it totally ridiculous to expect this out of any machine? I really dont know and haven't been around enough different printers/machines.

[David Milisock]

This is a straight question, just wanting some professional experienced opinions.
Is there any printing press or digital printer that will print the same thing over and over (couple thousand sheets a day) and maintain its color consistency? Has anyone experienced this? Is it totally ridiculous to expect this out of any machine? I really dont know and haven't been around enough different printers/machines.

A properly maintained press and well trained pressman will give you the best sheet to sheet color throughtout as job.

I've worked with several digital print engines and depending on how critical your eye is your screwed. I've seen work from a NextPress vary throughout the run same with ther IGen, what I mean by that is that the color varied, 5 cases of paper 2 lots, same brand, when you went from one lot to lot the color changed. How do you fixe that in a way that you can make money?

[gordo]

This is a straight question, just wanting some professional experienced opinions.
Is there any printing press or digital printer that will print the same thing over and over (couple thousand sheets a day) and maintain its color consistency? Has anyone experienced this? Is it totally ridiculous to expect this out of any machine? I really dont know and haven't been around enough different printers/machines.

No manufacturing process is perfect. There are always variations. The key is to clearly define the target as well as the acceptable deviation as well as the objective method that will be used to measure the deviation.

best, gordon p

[RGPW17100]

Indigo is the same. Had a CSR sign off on the color and about 50 sheets into the run it changed. Press checks are kind of a joke as well. Most presses take about 500 sheets for the water and ink to settlle down to get an accurate pull. Even with ink densities exactly the same during the first couple sheets versus say sheet 1000 it can be different. A lot of colors are more forgiving then others. Browns and grays forget it. Same with a lot of the darker blues. Give me PMS 485 on every job and I would be a happy camper

[Bloodsaler]

This is a hard question.The perfect state may only exist in the theory.In digital printing and lithography or other printing way,the result color related to the consumbles,the calibration way,and the color conversion.In the real word,the ink pigment vary much,the paper vary much,and the printing condition vary much,also the color conversion can`t be professional all the time.So this results the color consistency is a difficult thing.All we have to do is get closer to each other,but this kind of closer doesn`t mean the same.Even g7 method confirm that can control the gray balance well in each device,but in the application,there also have other factors that will effect the outcome.
So this is why color management should use,but also is why color management is hard to use.

[rich apollo]

The short answer is, "no."

Gordo started into the long answer. Variation is inherent in every process. Consider for a moment driving a car. Your speed varies somewhat, as does the direction of travel. Turn on the cruise control - the variation in velocity may lessen, but it is still present; and you've done nothing to keep the vehicle on a straight, and constant trajectory. You, and the cruise control, are constantly making adjustments.

Printing presses are designed to give a repeatable result. That repeatability, however, has a normal variation to it. The trick is to define the normal window of operation. You cannot expect to measure in 1/16's of an inch with a ruler that is marked off in 1/8's of an inch.

Gordo is also correct in stating the importance of defining the "acceptable deviation" (which MUST be within the normal window of operation), the metrics that will be used to measure the deviation, and the method (and structure) in which data will be gathered.

[David Milisock]

Indigo is the same. Had a CSR sign off on the color and about 50 sheets into the run it changed. Press checks are kind of a joke as well. Most presses take about 500 sheets for the water and ink to settlle down to get an accurate pull. Even with ink densities exactly the same during the first couple sheets versus say sheet 1000 it can be different. A lot of colors are more forgiving then others. Browns and grays forget it. Same with a lot of the darker blues. Give me PMS 485 on every job and I would be a happy camper

Man do I hear you, the digital devices seem to at maintenance time get calibrated they run for a whie and then need worked on and usually snap back. The problem with color from lot to lot on paper is another issue. As is some of the BS the color management people tell the operators especially before they buy.

[Lukas Engqvist]

I believe the BS is not the color management people but the sales people who make promises without understanding colour at all.

[David Milisock]

It's all around sales and technical staff. You'll almost never here about the inherent color issue with digital devices.

I did some consulting for a flat bed printer a year ago and I got the job when I replied to his question about a profile for his digital Camera RAW work flow. The guy has a $35,000 Phase capture back and lens setup with about another $15,000 in studio equipment and 20 years experience.

I told him that if ayone thought that with my $12,000 worth of equipment I was going to improve over what Phase had to offer it was in my opinion BS. I might spend $2,500 in labor and I might or might not be better but the end result was not going to be worth the cost.

I got $10,000 in consulting on the digital work flow for their cutter and new flatbed.

I appreciate that color management is a work in process and when utilized properly it not only improves color it improves profitability but in 35 years I can tell you I don't see that happening in alot of places.

[oxburger]

All of the discussion on color consistency is moot anyway. Most files that are given to a printer are usually not even color corrected. Sure we run a color proof on images that are waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy too yellow. The customer o.k.'s it and then o.k.'s the job on press. Color doesn't seem to matter anymore unless you're a major "mall type or catalog" retailer or corporation (i.e. Limited Brands, Macy's, Apple, etc.) Most non-retail print clients seem to be o.k. with crappy color. It's kind of sad. Most want "fast", not "pretty".