Using Device Link Profiles to improve color consistency

[Greg_Firestone]

Hi all,

I'm just wondering how many shops are using device link profiles or color servers to improve color consistency across various presses (excluding proofing systems). Or if you're not using them, do you not have the need. This stems from a conversation I had regarding printing to standards and how often shops can't match color easily between devices.

Thanks for your feedback.

Regards,
Greg

[TerryWyse]

Personal opinion of one who sets up device link profiles for my customers.....I believe that device link profiles can help you print more *accurately* to a print standard.....but better *consistency* is a myth. If you didn't have your process under control BEFORE you started using device link profiles, don't expect device links to magically improve your consistency....they won't. They could potentially MASK poor print consistency but they won't improve consistency in any real sense.

Regards,
Terry

[Lukas Engqvist]

Good point Terry. I find the biggest reason for using device or colour servers is too much ink. There in the Agfa Prepress this is referred to as re-purposing, and has many similarities with ink saving and technologies.

The tricky part is when there is a CMYK mix defined yet the customers order is ambiguous with regard to if this was a coated or uncoated recipe... Here a dialogue with the customer and returning to the source may be the only solution... to simply drop it on a colour server is convenient, but in my opinion a breach in professionalism. I think the client should have part in the decision to reprocess the images.
For clients that want to use out of the box technology, a service provider may need to implement device link to help their client interface to reality.

[David Milisock]

Consistency is about having all your color management process under control. A device link profile may be part of that but will have no positive affect on consistency if the other processes are out of control. Which unfortunately is the case in many situations.

[gordo]

I think this thread is an example of the all too frequent habit of misusing terminology, which in turn causes confusion in this industry.

Neither device link profiles nor color servers can improve color consistency across various presses since a device link profile is simply a conversion formula to transform an image from one specific profile to another. And a color server simply a computer server.

So, shouldn't the question be more like:

"I'm just wondering how many shops are reseparating incoming files and applying GCR techniques to improve printability (excluding proofing systems)."

Of course the statement "This stems from a conversation I had regarding printing to standards and how often shops can't match color easily between devices." without some clarification does not follow from the question.

So the poll questions might become:

Are you reseparating incoming files and applying GCR techniques?
Using DVL profiles with a Color Server?
Using DVL profiles integral in the workflow?
No, but have an interest in reseparating incoming files to improve printability
No, it wouldn't help in our shop

Or, maybe I'm misunderstanding the post.

best, gordo

[David Milisock]

I think this thread is an example of to all too frequent habit of misusing terminology, which in turn causes confusion in this industry.

Neither device link profiles nor color servers can improve color consistency across various presses since a device link profile is simply a conversion formula to transform an image from one specific profile to another. And a color server simply a computer server.

So, shouldn't the question be more like:

"I'm just wondering how many shops are reseparating incoming files and applying GCR techniques to improve printability (excluding proofing systems)."

Of course the statement "This stems from a conversation I had regarding printing to standards and how often shops can't match color easily between devices." without some clarification does not follow from the question.

So the poll questions might become:

Are you reseparating incoming files and applying GCR techniques?
Using DVL profiles with a Color Server?
Using DVL profiles integral in the workflow?
No, but have an interest in reseparating incoming files to improve printability
No, it wouldn't help in our shop

Or, maybe I'm misunderstanding the post.

best, gordo

Agreed! If you think this is bad try troubleshooting an entire postscript proecess or an applications complete color handling process from a forum.

The level of use of technology in graphics is embarrassing, ask gradutes or journeymen what the 3 core technologieds in which a graphic application has to be compliant and see if they even understand the question.

My computer division 30 days ago made a decision to no longer support printing companies, many are in such a mess technologically and have no money. Were still doing business and Cm consulting but we won't sell them computers.

[Greg_Firestone]

Thanks all for contributing to the thread.

@TerryWyse - I agree, "accuracy" could replace the word "consistency". The main idea is getting the same color if a job is printed on various presses. Obviously if the process control is out of whack, it won't help at all, but it was assumed process control was in order.

@Gordo - I wasn't implying GCR or printability with my question. I specifically wrote "can't match color easily between devices" but maybe it wasn't too clear. Think more about different color gamuts between presses.

Some examples:

Printing a job for a customer which requires two different jobs on two different press types (e.g. flexo & offset, or digital and offset) and achieving the same color.

Printing the same job on multiple presses (e.g. 3 different offset presses) in different plants and achieving the same color between presses

I'll change the question from " improve color consistency" to improve matching color between devices" I hope this helps clarify. If not, I'll try to provide more details.

- Greg

[Greg_Firestone]

Hmm. . . not sure if I can edit a poll.

[Lukas Engqvist]

@Greg
Consider this. I was working in a constalation of printers in Sweden. Over a decade ago, with the teaching of the time all printers went through a project that was to calibrate their presses. All printers worked out their maximum contrast and blackpoint and then made profiles for their presses. But we couldn't share jobs. We had adopted late comittment workflows, with images in RGB and that meant that photos, were reasonably consistent… but printed materials have som much more. No good having images look the same if logos and artwork were inconsistent, the short we couldn't share jobs.

All firms were independant and so no one was going to say what rip, CTP or press to buy, but we still needed the strength of the network. But every one "knew" that all presses printed differently (we'd seen the results when we posted our charts with test images on a wall), and so dreaming of sharing jobs met resistance. But ISO was being talked about, even if it was hard to understand and know how to interpret. In the end we were able to agree to try target the same TVI curve, even though some used film and some had possitve and others negative plates. We also adopted an ICC curve with a more aggressive GCR (limit around 300% ink rather than 350%). The results were that the jobs were less noticably inconsistent (grey component now more dependant on K rather than sensitive to CMY variation)... we had a clearer target and so were able to hit it more often... and we could share jobs between presses with much greater consistency. We could even do a prelimenary run in one site with a smaller press and then a major run in another facility (different RIP, different to-plate process and different press, even different vendor ink) with acceptable results.

The systems were all dependant on local quality control. We did find some errors where a proofer would run one RIP and then there would be a bug in the output systems RIP, or perhaps a bad configuration of one sites trapping engine…*but a colour server or device link wouldn't have solved that.

The key was using a standard target for TVI and that standard was to be measured on the printed sheet. Also I would not be fair if not mentioning that these were all sheet offset. For cross technology I do see that device link may have benefits, but one should be careful not to see the colour server as a bigger carpet to sweep inconsistencies under.

[Greg_Firestone]

Hi Lukas,

Thanks for the response. I appreciate the real-world example. When I had this conversation with my friend, I argued that if a printer was printing to a standard (e.g. ISO), they should be able to get reproducible color across different machines. But then he threw in the curve ball with different types of presses, ink sets, substrates, etc.

I believe most printers don't use device link profiles or color server software; that's why I created the poll. Your post is a great example illustrating how printers achieved similar color by improving their processes and not investing in additional technology.

Greg