Color-shifts: PS vs InDesign PDFs

[Stephen Marsh]

Leonardr, Michael -

I did mention PDF/X and output intents in two of my posts.

When making low res email PDF files, sometimes having an embedded CMYK output intent profile can make the file size larger than desired.

The good folks at Callas have a "small" Fogra 39 included as part of their Callas PDF Toolbox product. Although this dumbed down profile may not be good enough for making conversions for press - it does appear to be good enough for use as an output intent for onscreen rendering without bloating the file too much. Worth installing the demo to give this a look!


Best,

Stephen Marsh

[michaelejahn]

Hi Stephen - I guess what we are trying to explain to the OP is - you need to color manage PDF files, that best / easiest / most reliable method would be to keep both the LR and HR in CMYK and have the output intent embedded into both so that Acrobat or any other color managed display system would know what to do.

Saving as PDF/X helps a LOT, but is certainly not REQUIRED to accomplish that, but your milage may vary...

[Correct Color]

In PhotoShop (PS), we have a standard agency color profile, that is setup in color settings. All our images use this setting, which has worked great. I have recently noticed some inconsistencies when PDFs and JPGs are made from InDesign. After checking around, I noticed that some people had the default settings of Northern America prepress2, so we were all looking at something different. So IT went and changed everyone to the same color settings (same as PS).

Probably your first mistake is assuming the IT guys know anything at all about color management. Usually I've found in my travels that it's best to keep them as far away from the process as possible.

Here is my conundrum:
I make a LR PDF (smallest file size, which defaults to the output setting: Color Conv.: Convert to Destination and Destination: sRGB IEC61966-2.1), and then
I make a HR PDF (Pressquality, with the output settings changed to: Color Conv: Convert to Destination (preserve numbers) and Destination to our color profile which is used in our image conversion and workspace.

Well, it's impossible to say with certainty from your original post, but I'd tend to suspect that at least part of your problem is right here. When you "convert to a destination" but "preserve numbers" in essence what you've done is leave the pixel values in the file in the old colorspace but tagged it as the new one. (In my end of color management, I never, ever, see a reason to do this.)

From there it gets a little hard to follow; if your "agency profile" is CMYK, you're working in that colorspace and you use the settings described above, it's possible sort of by chance that you might get images that match. Reason being that in that case, your 'convert and preserve numbers' change wouldn't effect the appearance of the file, since you're "converting" to the space it's already in.

And I'll assume it is CMYK, otherwise you'd probably get the blendspace error in that group of settings as well. However in that case, you're still converting into two different colorspaces in your PDF settings, one being RGB and one being CMYK, and of course that can cause discrepancies. Bottom line is if you want your LR and HR PDF's to match, create them in exactly the same way--match your color management settings of one to the other.

And beyond that, I'd add that it's been my experience that attempting a color managed workflow in an agency environment is very much akin to herding cats, except it's probably more difficult. At least cats generally are not egotists who have picked up large chunks of erroneous color management "information" online.

If you're serious about doing it and doing it right, hiring a professional to come in, sort it out for you, and be a voice of authority over the sure-to-be rebellious Tomcats is about the only way you'll ever get it done.


Mike Adams
Correct Color

[michaelejahn]

just FYI - two snaps and a WOOT WOOT to Mike Adams for his advice - you would do yourself no small favor for hiring a color wrangler like mike to come in and set things right. Just Sayin'.

[lyzan]

Check your color management workflow.

1. Source
2. Rendering intent
3. Destination

Convert to destination and Convert to destination (preserve colors) are totally different color management policies. Check your image if it is tagged with ICC profile. Tagged and untagged images plays important role in Indesign color management policies.

Lyzan