One Pantone on top of another Pantone...

[monq]

Hi all,

I was wondering what would happen if let's say a shape in a Pantone colour (i.e. Process Blue C) had an identical shape on top, in another Pantone Colour (i.e. Pantone Black C), with a "Multiply" in its transparency settings.

Once this goes to print - would the final output be some sort of screened version including both Pantones? Or would the printer think I am stupid and try to convert the whole shebang to CMYK? The reason I ask is because I do need to make some specific Pantones darker / and I do not want to add CMYK in the process.

Thanks!

[dabob]

What application are you using??? In InDesign you could import the image as a grayscale tiff or bitmap and then colorize it using a mixed ink swatch, ie, 100% pantone blue and 20% black and it would seperate into the two colors.

[monq]

I am using Illustrator - but I might have explained myself incorrectly. These elements are not images, but vector data (essentially - a Process Blue C circle with a Pantone Black C circle on top, using multiply.

So - the problem is not the actual importing of the elements (everythiing has been created directly in Illustrator) - but I need to understand how this will convert in the more complex world of inks and plates (aka: will this become a screen of the two colours? Will this become CMYK?)

Regards, and thanks,
David

[Stephen Marsh]

David, I am old school - so I generally prefer to set an objects attributes to OVERPRINT instead of using blending modes/transparency, even more so for spot colours.

You will of course need to preview the doc using "overprint preview".


Stephen Marsh

[monq]

Hi Stephen - I like old school (generally - less probabilities of error! ). I have heard the concept overprint before / and I just investigated how to apply this in Illustrator.

Would this be a "safer" way of dealing with my question? Is it correct to assume that using an overprint, the final output will only include those two spot colours - and nothing else? I just do not want to see any CMYK in my final output...

Thanks again Stephen!

[kandod]

Multiplying is identical to overprinting the top color but the inks used must not be opaque. Same as setting 100 Cyan multiplied or overprinted over 100 Magenta - it will make 100 Blue and you can preview it in Illustrator. You have to consult with your printer if the colors you wish to mix are capable of mixing and even better have a printed sample for a preview.

[monq]

Hi kandod, thanks for your feedback. I will check with the supplier I am currently in talks to in order to get an idea of the final output.

Cheers!

[chevalier]

Once this goes to print - would the final output be some sort of screened version including both Pantones? Or would the printer think I am stupid and try to convert the whole shebang to CMYK? The reason I ask is because I do need to make some specific Pantones darker / and I do not want to add CMYK in the process.
Thanks!

The final output at plating would be whatever percentage of each ink showing up on the plate. Depending on the inking sequence (which ink on paper first) and opacity of the inks different results may occur. No ink is completely opaque or transparent.

For what you are looking to achieve I would suggest a custom ink formulation.

[dabob]

Ok after getting back to this thread - heres an easy fix just make a color that is 100% cyan and X% black and spec all the "process blue" as cyan and tell the printer to put process blue in the fountain and the use it to print the cyan plate and print the black plate as black . . . .

[monq]

Chevalier, thanks for the info. This clarifies what to expect (and of course it makes sense - percentage will allow the ink below to also appear). But of course, it also implies that the order in which the inking sequence is applied it's also important (it should print the base first, it should print the top darker object second). A custom ink formulation would unfortunately imply the use of a 5th colour - which is exactly what I am trying to avoid since two of our suppliers charge us twice for doing a second pass, and they can only print 4 Pantones in one go.

Dabob - thanks also for your feedback; I am aware that something similar to your approach has been applied by some of our suppliers - but as a default, I want to avoid any process colours in the project precisely because of the limited amount of plates that some of our suppliers can run in one go.

Cheers guys - I appreciate it!