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Thread: CMYK: which swatch?

  1. #11
    keith1 is offline Member
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    Yes you're right about varying conditions of course. This reminds me of a long, long time ago. I think I was running a small Hamada or AB Dink. Had a customer who wanted his logo on different colours of paper. I forget what colour ink it was. Doesn't matter. It wasn't black, so obviously it wasn't going to look the same on differing paper colours. That didn't stop the boss from suggesting we mix the ink differently for each colour of stock. Fortunately, reason prevailed in that instance, but not without debate.

    It just bugs me that I have a Colour Bridge Coated Swatch (paper edition) which shows CMYK values as different than my Pantone Colour Manager Colour Bridge Coated Swatch (software).
    And the thing is, is that the closest match after the press run (real world) is the conversion that InDesign (in this case) does for me from spot to process.
    It kind of begs the question: Why the hell do I own the bridge swatch books & colour manager software in the first place? It seems all I needed is my trusty formula guide of spot colours.
    Then there's always the chance the press is having a bad day . . .

    I should concede that the software colour manager is Pantone Plus and the swatch book is the edition before that. But still; it's supposed to be a guide for white coated stock. As is spot to process in InDesign, and all 3 are different.
    Maybe it's me. You guys all seem to understand

    I always output PDF using the US coated sheet fed profile. Works for me - when I use spot to process conversion that is. Sometimes I try to get fancy and dig out my CMYK stuff. I'll avoid that in future.

    Keith
    Last edited by keith1; 10-29-2012 at 11:11 PM.

  2. #12
    Louis Dery is offline Senior Member
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    Hello Keith,

    take a look at my answer in this thread:
    Need Color Management Direction

  3. #13
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    gordo is offline Senior Member
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    This thread makes me pine for the steam-powered printing days of yore:
    The Print Guide: The Color Atlas - helping designers to specify color
    Simple and effective solution to the problem.

    Best, gordo

  4. #14
    keith1 is offline Member
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    Hi Louis,

    I did have a look at the thread and am pleased to see many others seem to be joining me in frustration. heh,heh.
    I did learn a couple of things:
    Under no circumstances should I upgrade any further with hopes of landing a solution. Doing that will only make things more confusing and baffling.
    Burn all swatches except my trusty old Pantone Solid Colour Books.
    And probably the most reliable way of achieving good colour is to walk into the press room with original art in hand and tell the press operator; "This is what it's supposed to look like." Then let him do his thing. You know. Kind of like we did 30 years ago.

    Keith

  5. #15
    keith1 is offline Member
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    Gord, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED TO RETURN TO! I worked at places that had a lot of those swatch books. Yes, things were much simpler in those days. Or perhaps I've just blotted out the nastier bits. Or could have been too blotted to remember them. One or the other.
    Remember the clip art books that came out each month or so. Each issue featured a colour separation that all you had to do was make film from - or something like that.

    Did you used to work in Vancouver? There was a pre-press place. I'm stretching my memory here but I'm thinking around Marine Drive area. Can't think of the name of the place. Probably in the 80's.

    Keith

  6. #16
    gordo's Avatar
    gordo is offline Senior Member
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    Yes I used to work in Vancouver. Now I'm in Victoria.

    Best, gordo

  7. #17
    keith1 is offline Member
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    I worked in Vancouver for a long time. Now in Niagara Region. Was in Victoria off & on for about 3 weeks this summer. Will be back in January. This time I hope to run down a few bicycle riders that always seem to be in the way there.

    Keith

  8. #18
    rich apollo's Avatar
    rich apollo is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by keith1 View Post
    Gord, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED TO RETURN TO! I worked at places that had a lot of those swatch books. Yes, things were much simpler in those days. Or perhaps I've just blotted out the nastier bits.
    Printers and designers remind me of the false prophets in Dante's Inferno. In the eighth ring of Hell astrologers and false prophets had their heads twisted around so that they were forced to walk backwards.

    I think that you are, indeed, experiencing some selective nostalgia, Keith. The tools are so much better now. Providing swatch books is a nice way to illustrate some capabilities. As a working methodology it seems kind of unwieldy. We have really good tools now, but a lot of people resist using them.

  9. #19
    keith1 is offline Member
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    i was being facetious

  10. #20
    Lukas Engqvist's Avatar
    Lukas Engqvist is offline Senior Member
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    seems I missed a fun discussion about colour.
    And remember pantone ink is and INK (paint in a bucket) not a colour, not only is CMYK device/process dependant but so are Pantone colours. Ink properties change, industrial machines change, paper qualities and properties change,... (and let's not get started on how lighting affects the device independant Lab values)
    Learning by teaching!


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