Kodak Trillia plates?

[stargate]

Anyone is using it? How do they compare to Fuji LHPJ?

[Kevin@Kodak]

Anyone is using it? How do they compare to Fuji LHPJ?

I'll let our customers speak directly about this instead of giving you the Kodak view for now - but to help you find information online, the official name is "Trillian SP".

Let me know if I can help in any way though - either publicly or through private message/email

Kevin.

[Bob Weir]

The Trillian is currently made in China, I would be concerned about receiving product.
I attached a link to an article of an Austrian company using Trillian


NP Druck cuts costs, gets greener with KODAK TRILLIAN SP Thermal Plate - Printing Industry News from WhatTheyThink

[Kevin@Kodak]

The Trillian is currently made in China, I would be concerned about receiving product.
I attached a link to an article of an Austrian company using Trillian


NP Druck cuts costs, gets greener with KODAK TRILLIAN SP Thermal Plate - Printing Industry News from WhatTheyThink

Thanks for posting that link.

Trillian SP is actually made in both Europe and China at the moment, and will be made in the USA shortly as well (the products are designed to be completely interchangeable, for redundancy and security of supply). I do understand your concern in the short term - with any long supply chain it has to be properly managed - but our ramp-up in the USA is being carefully managed and we have more than ample inventory in place for our customers here. Given some of the huge accounts jumping on board the Trillian SP wagon, we can't afford to take any risks in that respect either!

Kevin.

Kevin.

[vansrv8er]

What about Chemistry? I understand lower pH but voc?

[Kevin@Kodak]

What about Chemistry? I understand lower pH but voc?

Hi Vansrv8er -

The Trillian SP processing system uses a pH Neutral solution to wash off the unexposed coating (pH 6.8 before processing, pH of almost exactly 7 at the end of the bath life). It also is not sensitive to air exposure, so you don't need any anti-ox replenishment (i.e. you can turn the processor completely off when not in use - even for weeks - and the bath won't change at all). The replenishment rate is 40-50ml/m2, depending on plate volume (the extra 10ml is to compensate for evaporation in low-volume accounts). EDIT: bath life is up to 40,000 ft/2 or 8 weeks (or more!) before you have to dump/clean/refill.

For VOC's, using the EPA-specified test method (EPA Test Method 24) for this type of printing material, the results show no VOC emissions. However, that's a bit of a misleading statement because the test method itself is broken when it comes to aqueous solutions... even though it's specified for exactly this type of solution. Essentially, liquids that contain a large portion of water may show negative VOC results - which most of our plate chemicals do. This is why we have chosen not to rant and rave about our "zero VOC" - we don't believe in the test method, even though it sounds good from a marketing perspective.

Having said that - we also do "sniffer testing" and monitoring at customer sites to ensure our processing systems aren't contributing huge VOC to the atmosphere. Real-world tests show that for the systems we've tested there are no appreciable emissions either. (it's truly a "system" test at that point though, not just one component of the system - so it's difficult to make a legally-binding blanket statement).


I hope that answers your question!

EDIT: here's a link to a similar discussion on VOC earlier, with a bit more detail: Positive vs. Negative CTP




Kevin.

[Luvdgoof]

We recently switched to the Trillian plates and are having mixed results. From the Prepress standpoint, I am pleased with how the new plates work. They image/process faster, the chemistry is better, and our weekly calibration has very little variance. Not to mention the blue color is not bad to look at. Joking aside, we are having some issues on the press. Our Magenta plates have banding at our normal 45 degree screen angle, but if we switch it to a 75 degree angle the problem disappears. Also, our pressman are complaining that the dots are bigger now, but I think that's more of a press issue. Of coarse as someone that works in pre-press, the constant finger pointing between us and the pressman is ever present. There are certain lot numbers of the new plates do not clean as well, leaving behind clouding which requires and additional run through the processor. I assume it has to do with the fact that they are currently being processed in China. Once they begin manufacturing the plates locally, in Georgia I believe, I hope that problem goes away. Like anything in the begining stages, there are kinks to be worked out. I hope this plate ends up working out as well as I'd hoped. I'd hate to go back to Sword.

-Adam

[Kevin@Kodak]

Also, our pressman are complaining that the dots are bigger now, but I think that's more of a press issue.

Actually, it could simply be that Trillian SP is a negative working plate (image the dots) instead of a positive plate (image the background). A negative plate typically is a bit fuller in the mid-tones, while a positive plate is a bit thin in the mid-tones. That difference is normally calibrated out - maybe that wasn't done at setup?

The banding you mention is a bit weird too - if you aren't in touch with support or need any help, let me know and I'll ensure we get that resolved for you asap. Both sound like solvable issues.


Kevin.

[Luvdgoof]

Actually, it could simply be that Trillian SP is a negative working plate (image the dots) instead of a positive plate (image the background). A negative plate typically is a bit fuller in the mid-tones, while a positive plate is a bit thin in the mid-tones. That difference is normally calibrated out - maybe that wasn't done at setup?

As I mentioned we do calibrate on a weekly basis and our numbers are in the same range as they were with our previous plates. We had a team of 4 Kodak people and one from Screen (our imager) here to help with the transition, I hope that something wasn't missed. Should we be aiming for lower numbers during calibration to compensate for the gain? We are in talks with both Kodak and Esko to resolve the issue. In the mean time we are experimenting with different dot types (Ellipise, Diamond, Round).

[gordo]

As I mentioned we do calibrate on a weekly basis and our numbers are in the same range as they were with our previous plates. We had a team of 4 Kodak people and one from Screen (our imager) here to help with the transition, I hope that something wasn't missed. Should we be aiming for lower numbers during calibration to compensate for the gain? We are in talks with both Kodak and Esko to resolve the issue. In the mean time we are experimenting with different dot types (Ellipise, Diamond, Round).

You wrote: "Our Magenta plates have banding at our normal 45 degree screen angle, but if we switch it to a 75 degree angle the problem disappears." By banding I assume you mean shade stepping - you don't get a smooth gradient? I ask because "banding" has another meaning in CtP and that is lines in the plate caused by the laser swath.

I don't believe that shade stepping would be affected by dot angle so it should appear in all four colors. It also shouldn't disappear if you switch Magenta to 75 degrees - it would just reappear in whichever color is now using the 45 degree angle (typically black). Also, since 45 degrees (like 0 and 90 degrees) is a rational angle, one would not expect there to be any issues related to screen angle.

I doubt that changing dot shape will have any impact on a shade stepping issue. The choice of Ellipse, Diamond, Euclidean, or Round primarily affects the visibility of the "optical bump" that occurs when dots begin to connect. The different dot shapes and benefits/issues are described here: Quality In Print: AM Screening Dot Shapes My preference for CtP is Round dot (which, incidentally was used to in the GRACoL characterization press runs) for the reasons given in the blog posting.

Normally you don't change plate imaging to change dot gains. Instead you would use a tone reproduction compensation curve applied in your workflow to alter the plate tones in order to create the tone reproduction you want on press.

best gordon p