Both are very reliable devices, but Screen is open for servicing. You can do almost everything with phone help by service engineer. For Kodak Trendsetter you need the dongle for access the service shell and the machine is never your in my opinion.
I Sell, Service and Buy both machines and I have to say that both are great machines as stated with the newer Trendsetters and Magnus GMCE has a service dongle. I think I am ok with it because it would insure that the person or persons touching your device are factory trained and certified.
As I understand, when the factory trained Engineers leave or being laid off from Kodak , they will take the service Dongle with themselves. I thought the Service Dongle is the property of Kodak and only used by Kodak employee engineers. Beside these, having the Service Dongle, doesn't mean the Engineer is factory trained, he might bought the Dongle from an angry Kodak employee who had being laid off . I disagree with the idea of a factory trained Engineer knows more about the machine than a freelance Engineer. We all trained in the factory, but experienced in the field. The training was only the opening of the door and building trained Engineers' confidence on the machine. I still believe, but do not insist, that the machine owners have to have control on parts, service and consumables. The machine buyers can decide who to call, a factory trained engineer from Kodak or a freelance engineer. This can be achieved with Screen,Fuji, Heidelberg and Agfa in the free market world, but certainly not with Kodak no matter if their machines have excellent performance or not.
Originally Posted by Raymond Ramirez
Last edited by Armya Inc; 07-24-2012 at 11:08 AM.
Screen, for all the reasons Armya listed.
if someone knows a good kodak engineer WITH a dongle, please PM me, lol
Farshad, you do not know enough about Trendsetters and you are misleading the people on this forum.
Originally Posted by Armya Inc
I wonder how can you provide service on these machines when you have no idea about how they work.
I would advice anyone against allowing a freelancer without previous Creo/Kodak training and extensive work experience touch their machines and especially the lasers.
I'm working in Kodak service (former Creo) for many years now and I have to make the following corrections:
1. All Trendsetters can be accessed without a service dongle - MPE/MCE/GMCE. The only issue is that you cannot run scripts for laser advanced diagnose or TPA for plate setup. The fact that you do not know how just proves your lack of knowledge.
2. Service Dongles only make device access easier through Service Shell and TPA, by providing a graphic interface and scripts designed to diagnose and make laser adjustments for plate setup that can also be done without it. Dongles have to be constantly updated from internal servers or will expire in a couple months. I must add here that all Trendsetter News machines have license for Service Shell access.
3. There are more than 12 000 Trendsetters in use worldwide today, more than any other 8-up machine ever built and that should tell something to anyone. We have machines in service built in 1996 and still running strong. You can see on this forum lots of people asking questions on MPE machines that stopped being produced 10 years ago (2002) and I see you're selling them on your website.
While Screen is without doubt a very good machine, it does not even come close to a Trendsetter with regards to imaging performance (for those that care about it)
Screen tried to copy the Creo Laser with their GLV lasers but the results were far from expected.
Another thing is the speed - the very same engine found in the cheapest manual Trendsetter is the same with he one from the Trendsetter News 200 that can image up to 110 full 8-up thermal plates per hour. Show me one machine from Screen that can come close to this.
Another aspect that people in the printing industry in North America should be aware of is about service. Kodak offers 1h remote support and next day parts and service onsite for all their contract customers. Screen does not have a solid service infrastructure and it could take weeks to have a device repaired. While this may be acceptable for the small print shops it does not work so well for the big and time critical printers.
Of course, this comes at a cost. A very high one, which is to blame on Kodak leadership which brought the company in bankruptcy and are milking now the only viable business left.
In Creo days service was much cheaper and faster and a lot of times provided for free.
With all these said, I cannot advise anyone in buying a new Kodak device these days due to the uncertainty of the bankruptcy process, but a used one will always be a good choice.
Last edited by nemo; 07-27-2012 at 12:19 AM.
These are great information. I am all clear.
Originally Posted by nemo
First of all who is misleading who. Do you think people are stupid and have no sense of judgement. I am only making my personal comment in this Forum and haven't been Authorized to lead Print Industry yet.
You suggest not to buy the new kodak devices, because there is a possibility that the Kodak will file a Bankruptcy as you the loyal present employee of the Kodak claim. This is strange that you announce this, I will imagine what the fears and concerns the Kodak devices' owners will have after this. In other hand, I couldn't find your real name and profile on this Forum. Perhaps, you do not work for Kodak or you seem loyal to Creo more than Kodak. It also seems like you are unhappy with Kodak. When you are unhappy with Kodak, then how would you be able to service their devices? How your customers can trust an uncertain Service Tech like you.
Would you be able to tell me after Kodak who is going to service the new and the used machines? Possibly a Freelance Service engineer like you who will possibly(I hope not) will loose his job with Kodak future. Would you be able to brief me after Kodak who is going to supply the parts( like Laser) to used/Old machines owners? Possibly the used equipment seller like yourself. I think after your comment, we both now agree that in terms of parts and service, Screen is safer machine to be invested on with Kodak uncertain future. The buyers can benefit and have choice to get support for parts and service from Heidelberg, Agfa, Fuji, Screen included Freelance Engineers. Cheers!
Last edited by Armya Inc; 07-27-2012 at 05:05 AM.
I'm glad I made things a bit more clear for you.
Regarding your remarks to my personal profile I chose not to comment.
I just want to make it clear for anyone on this forum that I post here only to help people with technical issues and give them a better understanding of Creo/Scitex/Kodak CTP's. This is not part of my job requirements, by the contrary may jeopardize it. I'm not involved in any kind of sales and I do not have any interest in promoting any products.
I just reacted to your post that was bashing the Trendsetters without any real base, except maybe your frustration resulting from the inability to understand the MCE\GMCE functionality.
I thank you again for helping me to over come my frustration with Kodak devices. We all are clear on Kodak devices, but why are you mad and frustrated? I feel anger and hate from your words. Why do not want you to elaborate your identity? Are you afraid of Kodak? Are you in Canada or US?
Originally Posted by nemo
Last edited by Armya Inc; 07-27-2012 at 02:17 PM.
I am sure you didn't bother reading my comments carefully and jumped to conclusion. This was my comment:Screen is my choice. It is user friendly and few consumable parts. The most important part is you will have control on parts and the service if you purchase Screen. Kodak is using Service Dongle for access to Service Shell on all new Trendsetters. What that means is the 3rd party can not have access to service level. . I do not think I made any comment about quality of the Creo-Kodak machine on Kodak Plates. I still think that they are great machines. We all know older versions are being installed and serviced by third parties. They are great machines. No doubt.
Originally Posted by nemo
You have to understand that people borrow money from the banks to buy a CTP. They look forward to have a better life for their family. Buying a new CTP system like Kodak is example of buying a BMW. BMW is a very good car, but imagine if BMW company announce that if you buy the car from us, you will have to buy the consumable,parts and service from us as well. This isn't the story of obsession with a Laser or the Machine. The story isn't about a good or bad Technology.The story is Kodak is killing a great machine , by not providing parts and service to the third party.
There are more into buying a CTP than bringing up the history behind the Dongle and describing the system history or advertising about Kodak service for people who do not care except where their money is invested and how their machine is reliable. People who has to fight the bad economy. This is the war of survivors.You claimed, I was fooling people. Then certainly, you are an honest man who help people.
Wake up and smell the coffee.This isn't about you and your obsession with Creo.This isn't about the history behind a stupid Dongle for new machines. This isn't about you and your knowledge about Kodak. This isn't about your Service and support.
Your 1 hour remote support and 24 hours service is a wish full thought and it is for customers with Plate and service contract and not for everybody else. Do you have such a support through Kodak partners in different parts of the world? You claimed that your Laser is the best compare to others, how much your Laser cost? Who has to pay for it you or the device owner.
I am not frustrated with MCE/GMCE functionality. I have a complete training on that system. Perhaps, you didn't know that. So at least ask before gladly making sick comments with no evidence to satisfy your sick mind. Your comments are from a sick mind with hallucination and obsession with a systems and feel of revenge from everyone who make a negative comment. Revenge from years of lose with Kodak. Revenge and hate that is all I see from your comments.
Unlike what you pretend, you aren't glad, but sad and crying inside. I seriously suggest to contact a psychologist for treatment. Help yourself!
Last edited by Armya Inc; 07-28-2012 at 05:45 AM.