Xerox 700 Digital Color Press

[Frank@be]

Xerox launched the x700 in Europe @ DRUPA.
Has anybody had a demo or installation of this new printer.
I would be happy with some findings or remarks on this machine.
We are going to install a new printer shortly and we are considering between xerox and Konica 6500.

[lfelton]

We had Xerox in last week talking about this machine and a few others. The 700 is based on the 242/252/262 print engine, but with improved paper handling and a higher duty cycle. Print speed is up to 70 A4's/min depending on stock thickness. The front to back registration is guaranteed at +-2mm (i.e. 1mm per side), so now falls somewhere between the DC2x2 and DC5000 in those terms. The other thing which people need to be aware of is that this is now the most "heavy duty" Xerox engine that prints without using fuser oil. We are primarily litho printers and the print quality from these machines when coupled with the right RIP is very close to good quality litho, without the "toner shine" that affects other engines. I haven't seen any other machine with a better print quality (including the bigger Xerox). I don't think there are any 700s installed in the UK yet (pricing wasn't sorted out at Drupa apparently), but the UK Beta installation ran about 250K impressions in a couple of months according to Xerox.

You need to get a dem booked in with Xerox, the above is my recollection so not to be taken as gospel.

As for the Konica, we didn't like the print quality, it's quite clearly inferior to any current Xerox engine. I haven't looked at their range in depth recently, but Konica sent some more print samples a couple of days ago and they were not great.

Having said that, a couple of other commercial printers local to us have bought Konica's recently. The capital cost is much cheaper than Xerox and they claim that the paper handling is "litho machine class". That's the achilles heel of the smaller Xerox machines, so I guess there is some mileage in that claim.

Hope that helps.

[Radibo]

The printquality on the Konica Bizhub 6500 is good, the Xerox printquality is excellent. The XEROX 700 has more value for your money. With Xerox you will find a bigger / larger knowledgebase in-house then when a problem occures with your Konica. When you dig in more in the quality between the both machines you will see that the XEROX is superior. In one colour full printparts (SRA3) the Xerox is better, also the XEROX-decurleroption is better. Fairly both machines are good, but als keep an eye on the prepress and take some time to test a variety of rips on both machines. When you want to keep your color to be consistent you must go for the XEROX, also the low-melt toners gives you a better imagequality with the same resolution. Konica will mention the term metal constantly, they are really satisfied with the metaltrays. But give a look at the plastic parts, to tiny to handle. The decurler on the Konica is good, but the 700 has a double decurlereoption, one directly after the fusingstation and a completely configurable station directly after the press which has a variety of decurlsettings.

With the Xerox you can setup trays for the paper you wish to use, you can put on a little pressure to the sheet in the tray. Also the sidebar is adjustable to achieve maximum stability for the insertlay / edge. All the parts are easy to change (drum, tonercartridge etc...).

We therefore have chosen for Xerox, again!

Edited by: Radibo on Jul 9, 2008 3:32 PM

[smatros]

x700 has plenty of problems, we are runing one for 2 months and the machine is very unreliable.

[xxeroid]

Yes Xerox is proud of their decurler and go on and on about it. The reason for this is that the DC5065, DC252, DC260 was so shocking with its curl, that they had to nut something out to fix it. With the Bizhub C6500, curl isn't a problem on it either way. If you want colour consistancy, the Bizhub will walk all over the DC700. Look at the Delta E ratings. If you want to print great solids, the Bizhub wins. If you want to print good black solids on 300gsm board, the Bizhub will do it, where the toner will scratch off on the DC700. Buying the DC700 is the wrong move, but there are still loyal X customers out there.

[notech_commonsense]

to smatros: i'm curious which channel you acquired your xerox 700 from?

the print quality on the 700 is outstanding. it is value priced machine for the right applications and volumes

[GregNac19]

Originally Posted by xxeroid

Yes Xerox is proud of their decurler and go on and on about it. The reason for this is that the DC5065, DC252, DC260 was so shocking with its curl, that they had to nut something out to fix it. With the Bizhub C6500, curl isn't a problem on it either way. If you want colour consistancy, the Bizhub will walk all over the DC700. Look at the Delta E ratings. If you want to print great solids, the Bizhub wins. If you want to print good black solids on 300gsm board, the Bizhub will do it, where the toner will scratch off on the DC700. Buying the DC700 is the wrong move, but there are still loyal X customers out there.

Question: What is the difference between the “old KM 6500 and the New 6501?

Answer: Not very much, it is still a 600 x 600 dpi engine but a few internal changes were made that sound more like retrofits that we would typically do as part of a maintenance contract. Their 600 dpi output will still be grainy against 2400 dpi outputn from the 700.

1. “The 6501 has new writing lens material that has been changed to lower the moisture absorption level, which the company says counters the effects of humidity on the output, and a new smooth drum surface designed to eliminate bonding of “unwanted material” such as dust or toner particles to help it stay cleaner and in turn extend the life of the machine.” - Sounds like they had an issue with dust and drum life….

2. Improved toner yield up to 8.7% better - Not sure how this helps image quality…
3. New smaller booklet maker (20 sheets) - I guess folks thought the size of the 200 page booklet maker was too big – you have a 25 sheet booklet maker…

4. New perfect binder (up to 300 sheets) - Depending on the size of the books, choosing to perfect bind inline will have a major impact on productivity. A “near line” system would be faster.

By the way, what is a 5065? I think that was a Xerox machine form the 80's.
Has anyone not named Konica Minolta seen toner scratch off a Xerox anything?

Here is two great questions for anyone evaluting machines; 1. When I run a job 20% color and 80% B&W, will I get charged for entire job in color or just what I used?
2. Will my machine stop and AUTO CALIBRATE like all the other BIZ Hubs every few minutes or so?

Please reference any delta ratings so people can see what you are talking about and who did the testing.

[random]

Originally Posted by GregNac19

1. “The 6501 has new writing lens material that has been changed to lower the moisture absorption level, which the company says counters the effects of humidity on the output, and a new smooth drum surface designed to eliminate bonding of “unwanted material” such as dust or toner particles to help it stay cleaner and in turn extend the life of the machine.” - Sounds like they had an issue with dust and drum life….

WRONG - The write units had a problem on yellow line screen that caused the edges of print to fade. This was resolved with a new type of linescreen ina firmware upgrade. This new write unit resolves the problem completely. The DC5000 has the same problem but on all colours and is unresolvable.

Originally Posted by GregNac19

2. Improved toner yield up to 8.7% better - Not sure how this helps image quality…

You can change toner on the fly but most customers requested improved yields.

Originally Posted by GregNac19

3. New smaller booklet maker (20 sheets) - I guess folks thought the size of the 200 page booklet maker was too big – you have a 25 sheet booklet maker…

All the accessories have been enhanced and wont work on 6500. New GBC punch also. Still the best online finishing options in the industry.

Originally Posted by GregNac19

4. New perfect binder (up to 300 sheets) - Depending on the size of the books, choosing to perfect bind inline will have a major impact on productivity. A “near line” system would be faster.

The engine produces books at rated speed, you can't make the engine run any faster with accessories.

Originally Posted by GregNac19

By the way, what is a 5065? I think that was a Xerox machine form the 80's.
Has anyone not named Konica Minolta seen toner scratch off a Xerox anything?

I think this is a AP machine.

Originally Posted by GregNac19

Here is two great questions for anyone evaluting machines; 1. When I run a job 20% color and 80% B&W, will I get charged for entire job in color or just what I used?
2. Will my machine stop and AUTO CALIBRATE like all the other BIZ Hubs every few minutes or so?

Colour is colour. The c500 was extremely bad at auto calibrating. The c500 was extremely bad at everything. This problem does not exist in the c6500.

Originally Posted by GregNac19

Please reference any delta ratings so people can see what you are talking about and who did the testing.

What kind of readings so you want?

[xxeroid]

Originally Posted by random

WRONG - The write units had a problem on yellow line screen that caused the edges of print to fade. This was resolved with a new type of linescreen ina firmware upgrade. This new write unit resolves the problem completely. The DC5000 has the same problem but on all colours and is unresolvable.



You can change toner on the fly but most customers requested improved yields.



All the accessories have been enhanced and wont work on 6500. New GBC punch also. Still the best online finishing options in the industry.

The Bizhubs have finishing that Xerox can only dream about.


The engine produces books at rated speed, you can't make the engine run any faster with accessories.

With the finishing accessories, they actually speed up to 105 pages per minute. This is done in the "relay unit" as the media leaves the engine.



I think this is a AP machine.

Yes the 5065 is an AP machine. It has also had different DFE's on it, and been called the DCC5540, 6550, 7550, DC250, 252, 260 and so on, and so on. You will also find the engine in the DC5000 and now in the DC700. Classic Xerox stuff, build one engine, and rename the hell out of it over the next 5 years or so.



Colour is colour. The c500 was extremely bad at auto calibrating. The c500 was extremely bad at everything. This problem does not exist in the c6500.



What kind of readings so you want?

Its the Delta E ratings/readings that are interesting. If you have a look at comparisons between the DC700 and Bizhub C6500, Delta E is massively better on the Bizhub. Basically, this is its ability to hold colour over a run i.e colour consistancy.......something X haven't mastered yet haha

[random]

Yeah, I was wondering what specific dE readings he was after as in sheet to sheet, side to side, every 100 or 1000?