Do I need to take a photo of the inside of a c6500? You can count the plastic parts on one hand! As far as I know our registration is the only machiine ISO accredited. Thats International standard Criag not Konica standard.
I have not opened either machine to compare construction yet, I was merely commenting on my experience with other machines that happen to use inferior parts. I will see it first hand soon.
We have just bought a KM 6501 with creo 304+ rip - and just about to get another.
pros:
Quality (better than our Igen)/ Cost entry point/ cost per click (lower than Xerox)/ auto mono detector - detects a mono click in a multi page colour/mono pdf and charges accordingly/ Can get 4 or 5 for the price of an Igen - contingency/very flat image similar to litho output/ laminates easily/no banding when maintained correctly
Cons:
Lot of paper jams initially - could be down to enviroment - runs alot better in controlled environment.
need tray heaters to run litho stocks (sales guys wont tell you this).
You have to work and turn anything above 300gsm
Slows down to approx 8ppm SRA3 D/S on heavier stock...
call out time 4 hours.....
We tested the Canon 6000/7000 range - think they will be really good machines in about 12 months but have relaibility issues at present + engineers short on the ground / dont seem that interested to sell you a machine -we waited 2 months to get samples back....
Would never touch Xerox - they are giants who in our experience cant be arsed with smaller developing companies and sales guys are full of shit (our experience)
You obviously have to do your figures - 25k a month is quite low but if there is high margin in the work you are doing then it could work - would advise in getting 2 machines as soon as possible for contingency - digital presses arent as reliable as litho presses - they will break down regularly....(irrespective of which one you buy)
need tray heaters to run litho stocks (sales guys wont tell you this).
What are tray heaters?
Also, we are considering the C6501 and we where told that service is from a third party company, Danka. Doesn't KM have a service department? Anyone have any experience with Danka?
The tray heaters are designed to condition the paper to be more readily acceptable to the device. Temperature/humidity control is vital in most print organizations. In regard to Danka and KM Branchs they are pushing boxes in my opinion and aren't as responsive when it comes to service calls.
Acquire the KM 5500/6500 from a local vendor with private label financing and a performance guarantee in the lease and who is also a pro-tech service award winner with response times under 4 hours the KM 5500/6500/6501e's works excellent and is the best value in the industry. The Ricoh 900 and the Xerox 242/252/262 are well respected for their quality but are predominately plastic devices and are better fit for office applications with multiple users. As opposed to the KM 5500/6500/6501e which are built on a rigid steel frame. Grab and pull the trays out for yourself, pull the engine out and you'll see a lot of metal, you'll feel the difference. The KM's are not built like the $100,000+ big boys but their bang for the buck is no question a great option and at your volume (35-60,000) the KM will do great things and even better with the right vendor standing behind it.
Slows down to approx 8ppm SRA3 D/S on heavier stock...
Holy crap that's slow, especially for a "Production" machine. Again this just reinforces my point about the 6500, if you are running 28lb text it's fine... get a few, but if you are like me and run a lot of 270gsm gloss cover you better re-think.
For example a job I just ran was 8,400 12 x 18 sheets 270 gsm duplexed, it was a 7 hour run. (duplexing at 1200 sph) If I had a 6500 it would have taken 35 hours to run based on Whygen's 8ppm simplex speed, plus I would have to work and turn(more labor). That means I would have needed 5 KM6500's to complete the job in the same time, where's the advantage in that? Plus this job had variable data on both sides which would have been a pain to make sure "John Smith" on the front was "John Smith" on the back, and what about a jam!!!
Holy crap that's slow, especially for a "Production" machine. Again this just reinforces my point about the 6500, if you are running 28lb text it's fine... get a few, but if you are like me and run a lot of 270gsm gloss cover you better re-think.
For example a job I just ran was 8,400 12 x 18 sheets 270 gsm duplexed, it was a 7 hour run. (duplexing at 1200 sph) If I had a 6500 it would have taken 35 hours to run based on Whygen's 8ppm simplex speed, plus I would have to work and turn(more labor). That means I would have needed 5 KM6500's to complete the job in the same time, where's the advantage in that? Plus this job had variable data on both sides which would have been a pain to make sure "John Smith" on the front was "John Smith" on the back, and what about a jam!!!
I'm fairly sure that Whygen means 8ppm duplexed, at least that's the very low end of what we're getting on the same type of machine. It's still not as fast as an 8000AP, especially on heavy stocks, but then we knew that anyway didn't we?
Incidently, I'm interested to see that you are pushing through 270gsm duplexed. The spec sheet for the 8000AP says that it will duplex up to 220gsm, so are you telling the 8000 that it's lighter stock, or is there a Xerox supported option now for duplexing heavier weight? What's the maximum Xerox supported weight for duplexing now?
Josh is correct it will fully support duplexing up to 300gsm. The newest CED has a custom paper set-up that will allow you to do this. We have actually duplexed 120lb cover (326gsm) without a problem (don't tell Xerox).
Mr Tonka, I think the sum up of this whole thread is that you really require quality while trying to avoid a huge production printing bill. I work for Ricoh, and your situation would fit the MP C7500 perfectly. I say a guy earlier before your output figures changed recommended the C6000, well the C7500 is built on the same line. I use this machine all the time at our local office, and I have them in 3 local pay for print shops. They have proved very reliable, and durable. If you have time, I would call your local rep to see if you can get a demo.
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