Indigo the way to go?

[designleicester]

I work for a design and marketing agency and increasingly we're seeing clients shifting from litho print to more short run work. Predominantly the jobs are no bigger than A3/B3 so we thought we might look at options for buying our own press in the future. We realise that this is a large undertaking and not something we can simply walk into, however its time to start learning! One of our suppliers uses an HP Indigo (?) which produces really good results and I'm keen to find out a) how much they cost and b) if there are any other machines that might be worth a look? Thanks in advance!

[lfelton]

Originally Posted by designleicester

I work for a design and marketing agency and increasingly we're seeing clients shifting from litho print to more short run work. Predominantly the jobs are no bigger than A3/B3 so we thought we might look at options for buying our own press in the future. We realise that this is a large undertaking and not something we can simply walk into, however its time to start learning! One of our suppliers uses an HP Indigo (?) which produces really good results and I'm keen to find out a) how much they cost and b) if there are any other machines that might be worth a look? Thanks in advance!

You need to speak to HP, most of the pricing information is under NDA. In very rough terms and factoring in the majority of the costs, if you print 100,000 CMYK SRA3 sheets (one side) per month that will cost your company about 17p a sheet excluding the cost of the paper. Obviously CMYK+LCLM or CMYK+OV that will cost more. If you print 200,000 per month that reduces it very roughly down to 11p a sheet. If you fall below 100,000 then obviously your cost per sheet is drastically increased. You will know what you can sell a sheet for in the UK, but most people estimate from around 18p, rising to as much as 50p+ for novelty items such as personalised calendars. Variable data applications are totally different, with a different pricing structure (although the print is charged out at exactly the same rates of course). You need to push big numbers through an Indigo to make money out of them.

Don't forget that you will also need to make a very significant investment in finishing equipment (and people to run them).

There is nothing else on the market with as good print quality as an Indigo, so if you bring this in-house, you need to know what is "good enough" for your clients. The other "usual suspects" are: Xerox, Canon, and Konica-Minolta. If you search this forum, you'll find a lot of useful information about the different models and their relative capabilities. You'll also find a wealth of BS, so will have to figure out which is which.

Hope that helps, but your first step is to speak with HP.

[direxiondm]

I agree on cost part but its a load of bs that indigo is best IT fully depends on what you Will be Printing f.i images are so much better on a Canon imagepress 7000. Gradients are Ã* little better on indigo as well Ad solid colors resolution raster and overall image quality is way better on Ã* canon.

Current market has severall presses that all have uniqeu abbiltys make sure you find out what work youll produce and find the best press that way.

Dont just say indigo is best!!!!!!!!
Ink will drop from the paper some Times with indigo

[Josh]

Originally Posted by lfelton

You need to speak to HP, most of the pricing information is under NDA. In very rough terms and factoring in the majority of the costs, if you print 100,000 CMYK SRA3 sheets (one side) per month that will cost your company about 17p a sheet excluding the cost of the paper. Obviously CMYK+LCLM or CMYK+OV that will cost more. If you print 200,000 per month that reduces it very roughly down to 11p a sheet. If you fall below 100,000 then obviously your cost per sheet is drastically increased.

Just out of interest what've you included in the 17p estimate? Simply the lease and click??

It just seems quite on the high side! I know on our Xerox 5000AP it would work out under 5p...

[meddington]

Up front an output costs are only a part of what you should look at. the indigo is, IMO, a bit more complex to operate, and requires more hands on maintainance from the operator than some alternatives. Consider operator training, wages and potential turnover (and retraining) as well. In many cases, outsourcing still has advantages over bringing print capabilities in house for a lot of companies, beyond (or despite) price.

[SlaveToTheMan]

Running 2 Indigos, I can backup what meddington said: Maintenance is key to successful running on these machines. You can't have an office full of designers simply sending jobs over & when a problem occurs, call somebody. You need a certified press operator who is good at mechanical troubleshooting & diligent about quality control. Rarely a day goes by that our guy isn't performing some kind of QC to keep it in optimum shape.

That being said, when it's in top shape, it kicks major butt over anything else I've seen. Good luck with the decision!

[lfelton]

Originally Posted by Josh

Just out of interest what've you included in the 17p estimate? Simply the lease and click??

It just seems quite on the high side! I know on our Xerox 5000AP it would work out under 5p...

lease (5 year)
clicks
monthly shared service charge (assuming level 2 operator)
1x operator, standard day shift

Nothing else included for.

Your mileage may vary slightly, i.e. operators command more money in London than out in the sticks.

[X33]

Look at these players : Xerox, HP Indigo, Kodak Nexpress for full production digital presses.

You can also look at Xerox, Canon and Konica Minolta if you want to start at a lower level of production.

Talk to the vendors, don't just look at the machines online.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by X33

Talk to the vendors, don't just look at the machines online.

I'll take that one more level and tell you to talk to the operators as well. Whatever vendor you talk to will tell you their machine is the best. Hell, a KM vendor will tell you to get 2 or 3 6501's and that will be as good as an Indigo?????? It just goes to show you that these guys can go from selling insurance to digital presses to used cars and be "experts"!

[leetaylor]

Originally Posted by Craig

It just goes to show you that these guys can go from selling insurance to digital presses to used cars and be "experts"!

Very, very good point Craig!