X700, C6501 or CS665: type size, page curl & RIP.

[stueey]

Having read a load of amazing stuff on this great forum I have gained a fair bit of knowledge but am still unresolved as to which new printer to get.

My choices are between the Océ CS665, the Xerox 700 and the KM6501.

Currently the Océ is ahead of the KM due mainly to the money side of things (not quite finished nailing it all down yet though but have had better offer from Océ than KM). The same configuration and RIP but without a spectrophotometer is pretty much £10,000 more for the Xerox 700 than the Océ. The Océ also has the option to print 1200x330mm sheets which is definitely something I can sell.

My biggest unanswered questions are these:
Is the KM/Océ unit really curl free, even without a decurler?

How does the KM/Océ unit stack up against the Xerox for small point sizes in type, particularly light coloured or white type reversed out of a dark background?

How much difference does the RIP really make? If I didn't need an external RIP I'd be laughing all the way to the bank.

[jotterpinky]

We've evaluated both the KM6501 and the X700 and found the Xerox 700 to give a slightly sharper print. We also liked that the colors almost always seemed more saturated and vivid on the X700. It seemed as though the KM6501 had a slight edge when it came to gradients (less banding) but they both looked about the same on small type, both just a simple black as well as a reverse (4pt) on black and color builds. Ultimately we have decided to purchase a new machine from Canon that just hit the market mainly due to price. You might want to give it a shot if you have a Canon dealer you can trust for service (that was our main problem with the KM). The price was about 20K lower and they matched the Xerox on click rates giving us a slightly lower rate (0.009) on black and white 11x17 clicks.

The machine is the imagerunner Advance 9075 from Canon. We compared samples from both it as well as their upper end ImagePress line and found the quality to be virtually identical. It doesn't show up on their website but it's due to start shipping in November. My feeling is you could get it outfitted with the external RIP, staple finisher, and POD deck for about 65K

As for RIPs we went the direction of a bustled rip for our DC250 and found it sorely lacking in horsepower when processing larger files, particularly of the VDP variety through it's FreeForm feature. In my opinion if you're providing pay for print you're foolish to not get the additional features and horsepower on the RIP despite their high cost.

[stueey]

That's an excellent reply, I'm really grateful, thanks very much. I totally forgot the banding issue on gradients, on my DC240 it's often a HUGE issue. I'm sure the 700 is far better but the KM being better at that is another thing that's going to help me sell it's prints alongside litho.

The Canon sounds interesting, I'll contact our local dealer tomorrow. When you say 65k are you taking $, £ or euros?

Generally my requirements for a RIP are fairly basic, I've survived with just the bustled RIP on my DC240 and the only things I'd really have liked are imposition (could live without it though) and increased print quality, something that I've been told several times (not always by a salesman!) that you get with a RIP. I'm not sure why this would be but I can believe it as it is the case with a RIP for my large format inkjet, I have way more control over things than I do when printing direct.

[Ratters]

I am a saleman for a large Xerox Production Reseller and would just make a couple of points.

The price difference between a X700 and a KM6501 should not be as great as you may have been told. If it is it maybe down to the reseller. There are only a few full production resellers in the UK but many office reseller who sub deal the production 700 putting an extra margin on.

If you have been having trouble with banding on gradations then a full production Rip will make a difference.

[mrgraphics]

Hello Stueey
65K mostly in USD as far know. Here in dar i am getting Xerox only the print engine with out any finishing for 110K...

[stueey]

Ratters...
Thanks for that. One of the main Xerox dealers in the UK (who I already have a service contract with for my DC240) has just come in with an aggressive price but still £2000 plus my old machine as a trade in more than Océ.

Mr Graphics...
Xerox are not far behind Océ for the C665 (basically a KM6501) but ahead of a quote I just had for the KM6501. The 6501 has been quoted at approximately £7,000 more than the Xerox700 and nearly £10,000 more than the Océ. That is even with the 6501 only having the embedded RIP and both the others having external Fiery RIPs.

I'm currently waiting on a price for the new Canon, a local dealer has not had the pricing in for the new Imagerunner Advance 9075 as yet but has assured me they are willing to put one in at virtually no profit on the unit on the basis that they can use me as a local port of call for demoing the unit to other potential clients. I think that sounds fair enough, I have met them before and they do seem like nice people to deal with, their office also barely 5 minutes drive from us.

[mrgraphics]

Hello Folks
I have a simple question to ask. In my country Tanzania the Xerox Distributor are expensive. But from abroad the Xerox 700 is reasonable. According to the Xerox agent i cannot buy machine from outside as each and every country has its own distributor. My problem is if the distributor in my country are selling at expensive price then why can't i bring the machine from out and get their technical service?

Please advice and give me suggestions...

Thanks

[Ratters]

stueey,

Being a main Xerox Dealer (CCCS) is not the same as being XPR (Xerox Production Reseller).

You should get a similar price to OCE. If you want to discuss an alternative price please feel free to call me 07971 690821.

[stueey]

Ratters, thanks I will almost definitely give you a call but I can also just tell you that the dealer is Xeretec, I'm lead to believe that they are one of the bigger Xerox dealers/consessions/whatever they're called and have good buying power. Of course that could just be some shit that a rep told me. ha ha

[mrgraphics]

Hello Ratters

Where are you from? sound like i can get a quote from you and compare with the reseller here.... to get atleast rough estimations...