X700, C6501 or CS665: type size, page curl & RIP.

[leo]

Hello, sorry for post here, Does anybody know where I can buy OEM tonner for KM 6500, 6501? I have big demand for OEM tonner. Please advise. Much grateful,
Leo.

[MakinCopies]

I am looking at the KM6501 and the C9075. I should have pricing this week and will look at the abilities of both machines. Please keep the dialogue going. I saw both at the print expo in Chicago last month and they both look great compared to my 5 year old Canon 3200's (i have 2) they have over 4 million copies between them. The Canon is leading the race right now but I am open to your suggestions.

[stueey]

The KM6501/Océ C665 is awesome, a real litho like finish. I've not had much joy enquiring about the canon here, I think they are way off the price of the Océ or KM and they wouldn't get down to the same click charge as the others, that's in the UK anyway. In fact the local canon place didn't even say they'd heard of the c9075 and were trying to sell me a c9070.

[MakinCopies]

The 9075 is coming in at a good price so far. I do think the click rate of the KM will be lower and I know that will be the difference. I will know soooooo much more in the next few days and will report back as to what I find.

[Windward]

We have been looking at both machines to replace/supplement our Docucolor 250. Not surprisingly, the X700 output looks a lot like the DC250. Colors are very saturated but this also means that halftone shadows are overly dark. I assume we will be able to adjust this by creating paper-specific profiles. The KM6501 colors are less saturated and the shadow density has more gradations. Coverage for large solids is excellent on both machines. Type edges seem a tiny bit sharper on the KM6501. We could sell the color output of either machine.

We have not been able to test back-to-front register (a significant problem for the DC250). We asked for a demo at a dealer that sells both lines. When I arrived for the demo, they told me both machines needed service before this type of print test. I was really annoyed. Register and skew are both problems we need to overcome in our next machine.

I have also looked at the Ricoh C700EX and C900. The C700EX has more limited paper handling capacity than the other machines and at 600 dpi resolution, it's not competitive with the others. The C900 is faster and much more expensive than any of the others. Both the C700EX and C900 have excellent tonal range with good shadow detail. The C900 printed excellent, consistent solids. However, both Ricoh machines produce noticeable toner build-up on printed sheets. Xerox, KM, and Canon produce a much flatter image.

I am hoping for a demo of the new Canon C9075 that I saw at Print09. However, there are still no machines in my area (northern California). Its features match the X700 and KM6501 and I expect it to be in the same price range.

Our overall experience with Xerox over almost four years has been excellent. The DC250 has been reliable and service response has always been within 24 hours; sometimes the same day. Despite its limitations, the DC250 has been consistently profitable for our company. Now that we know the problems, we hope to solve them with a newer device.

I'll report more test results and prices when I have them. Thanks to everyone for posting your thoughts.

[stueey]

I tested the Xerox 700 today, I'd sat that the coverage for large solids on the Xerox isn't even in the same ballpark as the Océ C665 (same as the KM6501) that I tested. It may well be ok on digital specific stocks but I used my own paper for both and it's decent litho paper that I get great prices on, way cheaper than digital only stock. The Océ laid down absolutely AWESOME solids, including a black only image that really was so good I wouldn't have believed if I didn't see it come off the printer myself whereas on exactly the same paper with the same file the solids on the Xerox were positively rubbish with very uneven coverage, no better than my DC240 really.

4pt white text in Helvetica Light reversed out of a full colour black background was most definitely better on the Xerox, it was very impressive to be honest but subtle shades of dark colour were very bland on the Xerox but far more clear on the Océ. The Xerox had front to back registration that was really good without even making any adjustments for any of the 3 different stocks I printed on, the Océ needed a bit of work but was very good.

The Xerox people say that the 700 will duplex 300gsm even though they only guarantee 220gsm but that the engineers don't like people doing it. Océ say their machine will do it (and I seen it steam through the 300gsm silk that I use with no problems) but they will only guarantee that it will work up to 256gsm.

The Océ/KM printer has a far more litho look and feel than the Xerox 700.

The output on the Xerox 700 was way flatter than expected and it wasn't configured with the extra decurler, only the default built in one. The Océ had a decurler and the sheets were completely flat.

After using the 700 today it is even less under consideration than it ever was, the Océ/KM unit gives very sellable prints and will mean that I can run far more jobs digitally rather than farming out to a litho press.

I'm keeping my Xerox DC240 though as it's in great condition and I have some clients like it and jobs that actually look very good with the really glossy toner look.

[almouhitcompany]

How much CS665 toner have capacity to print number of pages.Can i have detail on it.

The Ricoh is out of my price range, I'm still at the stage of needing to grow a lot in this market.

Currently the Océ CS665 is my choice, I'm going to have a session at the UK HQ this coming Monday with my own files and own paper. KM offered me a 6501 for a slightly lower click rate but the 6501 does not support the 120mmx330 page size that the Océ does and this is a reasonable potential market for me. Also Océ seem a bit more focussed on colour consistency and have a spectrophotometer (is that the right word???) included.

Xerox is now almost totally out of the running, particularly after asking an engineer a couple of 'casual' questions he confirmed that the 700 is not that different in finish to the DC240 I currently use. This makes it right out for me as the Xerox toner and method of print causes way too many issues with external finishing equipment.