KM c6501 or Canon 6010??? I need some help...

[JStrike]

We are trying to decide between these two machines as we move to an in house print environment. We have been able to compare using our most frequently used stock and a sample of many of the types of things we do (Postcards, weekly booklet, posters). The Canon image quality wins hands down IMO but I would like to get some input on reliability - like most of you, down time is a drag, even in the non-commercial environment.

We would be adding saddle stitch and face trimming to either to eliminate the offline booklet making which we do weekly.

Both dealers are great and I have heard nothing but great things about support/service. This is a huge purchase for us and we would like some more input from the real world...

Thanks!

[William1Will]

I have an HP 6500 e790 and it is so cool to print using wireless

[overscan]

We are trying to decide between these two machines as we move to an in house print environment. We have been able to compare using our most frequently used stock and a sample of many of the types of things we do (Postcards, weekly booklet, posters). The Canon image quality wins hands down IMO but I would like to get some input on reliability - like most of you, down time is a drag, even in the non-commercial environment.

We would be adding saddle stitch and face trimming to either to eliminate the offline booklet making which we do weekly.

Both dealers are great and I have heard nothing but great things about support/service. This is a huge purchase for us and we would like some more input from the real world...

Thanks!

Any reason you're not looking at the km6000?

[MacDaddy]

I have the KM with fold and saddle stitch happy with quality and most important our service guy. Looked at the canon before purchase I like the way the prints looked off the KM . I would look at the KM 6000 improved quality and has the option component to re-humidify paper helps with static.

[StrikTenn913]

I would recommend asking both companies to show you their version of what they call a 'customer expectation document.'

They should also both be able to find you a current reference customer you could talk to about performance of the engine in an actual in-plant or production environment.

I used to work for Canon and can tell you from hands on experience the 6010 (and that family of products) are impressive machines.

I don't have hands on with the KM products, but I know they penetrated the market very well leading with their low price point. To go along with the earlier comments, the bizhubPRESS C6000 is the newer product from KM compared to the C6501.

[rcreveli]

We recently upgraded from a Bizhub 6500 to the 6010. They are Apples & Kumquats. We chose the 6010 over the bizhub 8000, why.

Massive throughput gain over the 65xx series. Even though the 6010 is a "60ppm" machine it is faster than the 65xx series on just about every stock. we've seen jobs get produced between 1.5 and 2x faster just because of that.
Better baseline color (KM Machines run hot yellow & magenta in my experience)
Better spot color matching than our 6500
Better stock handling than our 6500
Heavy duplexing than the 8000 (the 8000 runs 350 GSM but only duplexes 300gsm)
brilliant paper management
This may sound minor but the standard drawers on the 6500 were crap we ran everything out of the big side drawers. On the 6010 all of the drawers are identical build and all load the same way.

Get the customer expectation documents. They are very different machines.

[lfelton]

OP - you are not comparing like for like:

* The 6501 is a discontinued product (at least in the country that I'm in)
* The 6010 must be at least 3 times the price of a 6501. The 6010 should be compared with the km8000 as they are nearest in price. I believe that Canon has a product in the 6501 area (Imagerunner?), though remember you should be comparing this to the km6000, not the old model 6501.

FWIW we've run 6501s for a couple of years in a high volume environment and have generally been pleased with them. I wouldn't buy a 6501 now because technology has moved on and IMO you need to evaluate current generation machines, not discontinued models. Having said that, I expect that a used 6501 could no doubt make money for a startup type organisation if bought at the right price.

[overscan]

OP - you are not comparing like for like:

* The 6501 is a discontinued product (at least in the country that I'm in)
* The 6010 must be at least 3 times the price of a 6501...

Have canon bumped up their prices. Last year at ipex the 6000 which was then the current machine for canon was being offered for around £50k.

[lfelton]

Sorry, my bad. Canon were pitching 7010s to us recently which we were (from memory) in the mid 100Ks each. I thought that 6010s were slowed down versions of the same machine and assumed would be something like 20% cheaper. If the 6010s are 50K then they are clearly different engines completely. I thought the sales guys did say that the 6010s were the same engine, but may have misunderstood.

Another thought - are you sure you're not talking about the bare engine cost? Our specs were with 2 paper feed pods, 1 hd stacker, plus a decent rip. The bare engine was about half of the total, but of course would be good for next to nothing in a production environment.

I'm still right that the 6501 being discontinued? I'd hate to think that I was misunderstanding everything

[rcreveli]

The 6010, 7010 and the VP Versions are the same engines. The x10's run slower than th x10vp's because on the VP's the second fuser is always ready. The x10's require 220 while the VP's require 3 phase.