Xerox lease price check Help! newbie here

[Kennn]

Hi All,
My name is Ken and I'm new to forum and digital machine world. I have been broker for a year and now I want to get a starter machine for myself. Most of my digital jobs are 11x17 full bleed. Many dealers that I've talk to told me xerox will not send me more Ink if I used too much but I asked my xerox dealer and she confirm that is not true, I can use ink to print 70% coverage as much as I can. Is it true?
here is the price of xerox machine

docucolor 252 with scanner and RIP controller
<10,000 clicks on it.
60 months lease is $621/mo plus service

service is $65/mo including 1000 color and 500 b/w minimum, you can add more
$0.067/click color and $0.0112 for b/w
Is it possible? some dealers charge me 4clicks per 11x17 2sided but xerox told me they only charge 2clicks for that job.

I want booklet finisher but that used machine doesn't come with it. dealer is checking on brand new price for me I don't want brand new one......any option for me?

Anything I have to watch out for?

please help me clear up. Thank you in advance
p.s. $28,000 cash on that 252

[JoshB]

You're probably not going to get a public response on pricing, because the first thing that Xerox will generally have you do to receive any sort of quote is to sign an NDA.

You should get competitive quotes from a different dealer if possible, and also compare with similar machines from a different company.

I personally have never had any trouble getting toner. However some time ago there were toner production issues for certain systems, and Xerox was forced to ration. This may be what you heard about.

Are you sure about 70% coverage on that click charge? Depending on what sort of things you print, that might not be very much. Remember that 70% doesn't mean 70% of the page has toner on it, it means that 70% out of the available 400% (4-Channels * 100%) is used. Maybe you print a few hundred posters, for instance -- solid orange background and an event photo -- well you just averaged maybe 120% across that run.

[Captweez]

We have more of a problem with them rationing color drums rather then toner. They seem to wear to the point they won't produce acceptable prints for us before they are "officially" exhausted. But this is running a lot of heavy stocks and a lot of coverage on a 240.

[Kennn]

Are you sure about 70% coverage on that click charge? Depending on what sort of things you print, that might not be very much. Remember that 70% doesn't mean 70% of the page has toner on it, it means that 70% out of the available 400% (4-Channels * 100%) is used. Maybe you print a few hundred posters, for instance -- solid orange background and an event photo -- well you just averaged maybe 120% across that run.

I see now. I never thought about toner when I send jobs out as broker LOL
so if I print few hundred solid background posters and used 120% meaning that I only use 30% of each color CYMK? if it is will xerox let me use that much ink for same click price?

[JoshB]

I see now. I never thought about toner when I send jobs out as broker LOL
so if I print few hundred solid background posters and used 120% meaning that I only use 30% of each color CYMK? if it is will xerox let me use that much ink for same click price?

That's exactly the question. They aren't going to shut you off if you print one sheet at a higher coverage, but you should have any idea of where that number stands compared to your needs. Be clear about what your contract means and what happens if you go over.

Since you've been brokering, you should go over your jobs for the last little while and figure out what your average coverage usage actually is -- you can get a rough estimate in Photoshop with a couple different plugins and there are a few web-services I've never tried that say they'll do it too. This will all be ballpark, because your coverage will be translated according to the machine and paper that you use.

You seem concerned with paying more than you need to for click -- that's smart. But more critical is figuring out what your total costs will be and if you're better off printing than you have been brokering. Go pretend that you just did your last quarter's business with the deal Xerox is offering you -- remember to pay your operator, and pay for power. Ooh... and don't forget the software you'll need now that you're doing your own pre-press. Did you come out ahead of when you were just brokering?

You should come out /far/ ahead or it's not worth it. You haven't yet factored in going down and having to have the job rushed from the print-shop across the street to keep your customer. You haven't run a job on the wrong paper and had to redo it. Or missed the scrambled font that the customer insists is your problem. You haven't wasted 1,000 of some expensive paper because the roof leaked. Etc...

[msaeger]

Is it possible? some dealers charge me 4clicks per 11x17 2sided but xerox told me they only charge 2clicks for that job.

Single click for any size is pretty normal now I don't find that hard to believe.

I want booklet finisher but that used machine doesn't come with it. dealer is checking on brand new price for me I don't want brand new one......any option for me?

If you buy one elsewhere will they inspect it and put it on the service contract? Maybe you can get one on the internet someplace like Ebay.

Many dealers that I've talk to told me xerox will not send me more Ink if I used too much

They won't make any money if your machine is sitting down because you don't have toner so that sounds crazy. If you are ordering a ton of toner and costing a lot to service maybe they would raise your contract price when it's up.

[GregNac19]

If I was you I would ask for a demo model. Xerox was selling at the beginning of the year for about $15K with bustled Fierys. The price seems a little high to me. Make sure the clicks are fixed though. Also are you buying from an agent or a global?

I used to work for the big X. Now I work for Ikon selling Ricohs. Just thought you should know.