Current State of Digital Vs. DI...are you nuts?

[tulsadir]

1st off, i wanted to get the Digital Printing angle on this matter -

considering current pricing and capabilities - if you had to buy today -
would you lean toward digital press or DI ?

What are the leading DI machines...which are still in production?

i am close to buying xerox 8000ap , 770, or KM7000.

(variable printing is not a big need for me)

my average job is 5000 full color, both side postcards on 100 cover.

((regarding the "are you nuts?" in title...that was just attention getter))

[arossetti]

What size post card, if its a 4x6 that's only a 600 sheet run which screams digital to me. I don't have a DI nor ever operated one but from what I hear it is a lot of up keep at a high price per sheet. Most people given the choice between digital and DI I think would choose digital.

[Disappointed]

What size post card, if its a 4x6 that's only a 600 sheet run which screams digital to me. I don't have a DI nor ever operated one but from what I hear it is a lot of up keep at a high price per sheet. Most people given the choice between digital and DI I think would choose digital.

Not so. It's dependent on run length, DI is not good below about 500 sheet runs but between 500 and say 20k it will cream most other presses of comparable size.

[Kevin@Kodak]

The market niche for DI has been sqeezed from both ends considerably over the last few years. Digital cost per page, quality, and substrate range has improved significantly, while the efficiency of short-run-offset has continued to improve as well. The gap between those for DI is arguably zero today (assuming modern equipment). I was/am heavily involved in the DI material that Creo developed for the Heidelberg/KBA/Ryobi DI presses, and it's clear that market is on its last legs.

As for the comment that 600 sheets "screams digital", I'd agree... but also say that offset can do that very cost-effectively too. A modern press can have a job up to full color in 10 sheets. I have customers overseas doing internet printing, and claiming they're profitable on offset for anything over 80 sheets.

So - DI was a great compromise when digital didn't cut it for quality and offset wasn't as efficient as it is today, but it's not something I'd personally recommend today as a new investment.

My $0.02 only.
Kevin.

[Erik Nikkanen]

A modern press can have a job up to full color in 10 sheets. .

I wonder about comments like this. Reality check is required.

[Disappointed]

The market niche for DI has been sqeezed from both ends considerably over the last few years. Digital cost per page, quality, and substrate range has improved significantly, while the efficiency of short-run-offset has continued to improve as well. The gap between those for DI is arguably zero today (assuming modern equipment). I was/am heavily involved in the DI material that Creo developed for the Heidelberg/KBA/Ryobi DI presses, and it's clear that market is on its last legs.

As for the comment that 600 sheets "screams digital", I'd agree... but also say that offset can do that very cost-effectively too. A modern press can have a job up to full color in 10 sheets. I have customers overseas doing internet printing, and claiming they're profitable on offset for anything over 80 sheets.

So - DI was a great compromise when digital didn't cut it for quality and offset wasn't as efficient as it is today, but it's not something I'd personally recommend today as a new investment.

My $0.02 only.
Kevin.

Interesting, but knowing I have no plates to change, no registration issues, on-colour in 15 sheets, no stock limitations, no damping to set, no scumming risk and a 12 minute job change, I think I'll be sticking with my DI for some time yet

[Disappointed]

I wonder about comments like this. Reality check is required.

Not quite but our fully tuned DI will run ISO standard colour jobs all day with a makeready of between 15 and 25 sheets, not quite 10 but damn impressive.

[Kevin@Kodak]

I wonder about comments like this. Reality check is required.

Heidelberg - Speedmaster SM 52

10 sheets to full color is the basis of their marketing message. Certainly it depends on your needs and expectations, but I've seen it personally in many shops. Reality, checked.

Kevin.

[Kevin@Kodak]

Interesting, but knowing I have no plates to change, no registration issues, on-colour in 15 sheets, no stock limitations, no damping to set, no scumming risk and a 12 minute job change, I think I'll be sticking with my DI for some time yet

If you have a DI in operation, I'm by no means saying to throw it out the door and replace it... I'm just saying it's not where I'd be spending my money for new investment.

12 minute job change... you can beat this with a standard offset press, and of course there's zero changeover for a digital press. No registration issues? You've never had a plate slip on your DI press? Lucky you.

Kevin.

[Disappointed]

If you have a DI in operation, I'm by no means saying to throw it out the door and replace it... I'm just saying it's not where I'd be spending my money for new investment.

12 minute job change... you can beat this with a standard offset press, and of course there's zero changeover for a digital press. No registration issues? You've never had a plate slip on your DI press? Lucky you.

Kevin.

Course not, fully understood, I would have to look very carefully at new investment now, when we got into DI, there was not much competition.

What machine? Very interesting, but you also have to factor in a CTP and operator with conventional. Never ad a plate slip yet and we burn a lot of plates