Konica C8000 review and Please HELP!!!!

[csudman]

Update AGAIN. Let me state that this has been a roller coaster. Obviously we've had our issues. Today I can say that we are happy again with Konica and our c8000. Follow this link for my most recent update.



Ok, so I've avoided posting about our machine till it was fully "broke in" and we had some volume on it.

We've had our c8000 for about 7 months now. Have about 480k on it at this point. Went with a 5 year lease because this machine was our of our reach on a 3 year(which is what we normaly do) but because of the capabilites of this machine we felt it could last us 5 years.

1st the positives....When its on, its on.

I have printed several pieces that could be passed for offset easly.

Paper weights are great. I've realiable duplexed 130# Cover(351 gsm) with no issues. I'm simplexed 160# Cover(461 gsm) in short runs with no problems.

Regisration can be great(read the negitives for more)

Sheet to sheet color is great. If the run isn't to long. (read the negitives for more)

Negitives....When its off, its off.

Since day one we have had skew issues. Some stocks (100 cougar) are more noticable than others, buts its allways there to some degree. I know that digital machines are not presses, athough this on has press written on the front if it. Sometimes one side of the sheet is straight and the duplex side is not. That said, having learned alot on this forum, we are not working with the loop adjustment on the paper profile level. Our techs never taught us that.

Streaking, its hit and miss. Sometimes the sheet looks untouched, sometimes it looks like an exgirlfriend keyed it. A call to service fixes most of it, but its rarely ever perfect.

Color consistancy. If your running heavy coverage, Anything more than a few 1000 and you start to get toner build up in corona wires and magenta, yellow or cyan streaks from the drums or somewhere else.

Registration. Oh boy. When its working well, we get about 1 mil movement on a 13x19 sheet. Its more than I would like, but managable. When its off, we see 1-3 mil bounces. We are profiling all stocks and STILL having to reset front/back adjustments every day. The dam machine will not stay in one place.

Error codes - Almost daily we see a code that requires restart. Some days the same code multiple times. They haven't been able to sort out and fix this issue.

All this said, the reason I'm posting today is for an issue our techs can't figure out. Right now they are trying to find an engineer to come to our shop and figure it out.

We have a RANDOM 3 mil image shift on the duplex side of our prints. Here are some examples of when and how it shows up.

I can have a perfectly mechanicly centered tray, perfecly aligned both sides adjustment and print a job that cascades trays. When changing from tray 4 to 5 on a run, I have seen the shift show up.

I can be running a 13x19 duplex postcard job, again, perfectly aligned trays, and have a jam. Clear the jam, and the image has moved 3 mil. (I can force a jam by opening a door and make this happen on demand.)

Today, I was working on our Calenders that we print and give to customers. 12 sigs duplexed. I printed 1 calender. ONE! the first 10 sigs were perfect, the last 2 moved 3 mil on the duplex side.

So, oh great Printplanet.com. Can you help me?

Thanks
CJ

[KMBS]

Hello CJ,
I am sorry to hear about the issues you are experiencing with your C8000.

I work for KMBS technical support and would like to assist you with the problems you have been having. Is your C8000 serviced by KMBS or a dealer? Also, if you can provide your serial number I can review your service history (if KMBS services it).

Most of the issues you have reported can be corrected. After I review your service records I can contact your service provider directly to make sure these corrections are made.

Best Regards,
-Clint

[csudman]

Hello CJ,
I am sorry to hear about the issues you are experiencing with your C8000.

I work for KMBS technical support and would like to assist you with the problems you have been having. Is your C8000 serviced by KMBS or a dealer? Also, if you can provide your serial number I can review your service history (if KMBS services it).

Most of the issues you have reported can be corrected. After I review your service records I can contact your service provider directly to make sure these corrections are made.

Best Regards,
-Clint

My 8000 is KM serviced. They are working on it(were here all day today). We have an engineer scheduled for Tuesday next week. Hopefully that will be the end to our shifting problems.

I posted this looking for suggestions from other users. Not quite cool with putting serial numbers on the web.

Thanks
CJ

[richwitney]

Hi csudman,

We've had our C8000 since early October, and it's been running very well.

I've only noticed 1 job where the image on the back of the sheet has shifted - I'm hoping this is a one off but after reading your post I'll be checking everything very carefully.

We have a tiny bit of skew in 1 corner of the sheet - probably only 0.5mm, and only on the heavier stocks. As the middle of the sheet tends to be spot on (or 0.25mm out max) I'm more than happy with this. On some jobs on the lighter stocks (ie 170gsm Silk coated) the front to back has been spot on)

Streaking - on dark heavy colours I can see 1 roller mark, but that's it.

Long runs of colour - I've heard this before, but haven't seen it yet. Maybe time will tell.

As for the Error codes, we've had 2 call outs in just over 200k impressions - whilst I'm not expecting it to stay like this, its certainly encouraging.

Overall, it sounds like you may have a bit of a 'lemon' - I'm sure it's something that can be fixed by the techs, but I guess each machine is different, as well as each install. Maybe we have just been lucky, but for us the C8000 been a dream so far :crossesfingers:

Keep us to date with your experiences!

[arossetti]

Is that 480k small and large clicks or just small?

[csudman]

Is that 480k small and large clicks or just small?

95% is 11x17 or larger.

[KopyBoss]

We have been running our C8000 for about 3 months now and have a little over 400k on it.
For the most part the machine has been great. If your techs cannot fix the machine I would request a new one, sounds like you got a lemon. Tell them to fix it or pull it out I would not pay for a machine that is down everyday.

[csudman]

We have been running our C8000 for about 3 months now and have a little over 400k on it.
For the most part the machine has been great. If your techs cannot fix the machine I would request a new one, sounds like you got a lemon. Tell them to fix it or pull it out I would not pay for a machine that is down everyday.

we are hoping it doesn't come to that. I know it can be a great machine. hopefully next week.

[JayDA]

I have almost 3 million Large clicks on two machines in just under a year, and I'm installing two more next week. We had some registration issues at first, most were solved by taking the time to profile stocks,. But that said....We run the same 10 substrates the majority of the time, so we are familliar with the idiosyncracies of each. When we got our first machine, we had some problems with color consistency, and KMBS made it right. Ask them to send you the heavy hitters, they have an amazing amount of resources at their disposal, just keep bitching until they make it right .

[csudman]

Well, its time for an update. Had a guru fly in from Texas on Tuesday. They spent the next day and a half trying to fix the issue. They replaced several boards, glued a penny on to an actuator to make more contact when closing the duplex module. Realigned the ADU. We think it is gone, but the problem hasn't happened all week. I am putting about 80,000 large clicks on in the next week so we are monitoring it.

That said, we have a new issue. I can get a within +- .01 mil duplexed sheet using both sides consistently over 20 sheets. Print a duplexed front edge adjustment and its correct, again printing 20 sheets. I can print a duplexed file from impose w/ marks and the image is 2 mil out over my run. I’m lost as to how this is possible? And so is KM. We are thinking Fiery communication with the machine possibly, but the fiery expert basically says that the fiery sends the image once to the machine and it just repeats it. Which makes it sound like it’s a machine issue. BUT, with the machine printing perfect test charts, it doesn’t seem like a machine issue.

The fiery expert is coming in next week with our local technician again.

To be clear, KM probably fixed the initial 3mil shift. I am watching for it and have not seen it. So that is great. But, I think we have created a new issue. I am hoping this is solved quickly next week as I have tight registration jobs stacking up. (KM offered me the option of running on their demo machine which is great, just inconvenient)

I will update again next week. If anyone has any ideas on the current issue would appreciate it.

CJ