Between the KM C8000 and Xerox 800

[chadfield]

We are in the process of looking at these two machines and I have a couple of questions for this group.

Xerox qualifies Xerox papers only and I've heard different opinions regarding whether or not I could run non-certified papers through the 800. Some have said as long as I run digital papers I should be fine but my thought is, and from what I've also heard, if I start having issues Xerox would question my use of stock not qualified by Xerox. I would think this would could be a real service issue so most would recommend using the more expensive Xerox papers to alleviate finger pointing. I would like to know what the 800 users recommend.

Concerning the optional clear toner on the 800, are you seeing much request for this?

I did a water test on a C8000 sheet and the Xerox 800 sheet where I tried to duplicate rain drops on the sheet. After sitting on the sheet for 2 minutes and gently wiping the excess, the Xerox toner was removed when wiped off but the C8000 sheet was fine. Are users concerned with how a digital sheet will hold up to "rain" and is this typical of a toner based product. I was quite impressed that the Konica sheet showed no signs of degrading.

Thanks for the feedback.

[bwalter]

I looked at both machines as well and after comparing features and pricing, went with the C8000. Granted, I did have two other KM machines and was happy with the service.
As far as paper types, I pretty much order whatever stock I want from our supplier and haven't had any issues yet. As for the toner durability, resistance to water hasn't come up as an issue, but I do know that overall the KM prints seem very resistant to scuffing, scratching, etc.
The only edge the 800 had for me over the C8000 was the clear toner, but in our opinion, it didn't stand out like a spot UV coating would, and we don't really have much call for that, so we didn't see the benefit of paying more for less. It's a neat feature, but in my mind it depends on the business and customers that you deal with. Some companies have a customer base that's looking for specialty items like that, where in our case, most of our business is postcards, flyers, etc. and there's not much call for anything fancy.
Bob

[chadfield]

Thanks, that's all good information. How did the install on the C8000 go and is your up-time what you would expect?

[bwalter]

Thanks, that's all good information. How did the install on the C8000 go and is your up-time what you would expect?

We had it installed at the end of August and outside of some tweaks in the first week, I've been running solid since then. We have had some technical issues, but we've got some good techs in our area, so I'm happy with the up-time. I will say, though, that I've only put about 500,000 clicks on it since install. Most of them were with 100# gloss cover and lots of heavy toner coverage, which is harder on the machine. I do know that another company in the area put 9 of them in and is running them 24/7 so they have a tech on hand almost every day.

The one thing to remember is that you can't directly compare this type of machine to offset equipment, because so much more of it is electronic than mechanical. I've worked with Oce, Nexpress, Ricoh, and KM equipment at different companies, and the big difference between the success or failure of the machines was largely dependent on the service techs and the machine operators. If you haven't dealt with KM before or don't have a good feel for the service, see if you can find someone else in your area that can give you an idea of what to expect.

[chadfield]

I appreciate the information. We actually did talk with a local install and received a very good report on the service techs. I'm feeling very confident in the service program KM has developed and have met the service manager twice. We will install the equipment in our Prepress department, myself and my Prepress techs will operate it until the workload demands another option. This is our first machine so lot's of interesting times ahead.

[bertman98]

We are in the process of looking at these two machines and I have a couple of questions for this group.

Xerox qualifies Xerox papers only and I've heard different opinions regarding whether or not I could run non-certified papers through the 800. Some have said as long as I run digital papers I should be fine but my thought is, and from what I've also heard, if I start having issues Xerox would question my use of stock not qualified by Xerox. I would think this would could be a real service issue so most would recommend using the more expensive Xerox papers to alleviate finger pointing. I would like to know what the 800 users recommend.

Concerning the optional clear toner on the 800, are you seeing much request for this?

I did a water test on a C8000 sheet and the Xerox 800 sheet where I tried to duplicate rain drops on the sheet. After sitting on the sheet for 2 minutes and gently wiping the excess, the Xerox toner was removed when wiped off but the C8000 sheet was fine. Are users concerned with how a digital sheet will hold up to "rain" and is this typical of a toner based product. I was quite impressed that the Konica sheet showed no signs of degrading.

Thanks for the feedback.

We have two Konica 8000 machines. same usual problems that all companies have with digital printing. scewing issues at times but Konica is always there to fix them. We can run most papers without a problem. We have the best Konica service team in the entire world which means a lot. we have had Xerox in the past and Konica service is much better. We did not see any value in the clear coat when we looked at the Xerox 800. all in all we have been very happy with the 8000. biggest problem we have had is with the Fiery, and that is a Fiery problem, they are installing new software in the next few week. Hope this helps

[arossetti]

We have an 800 and use anything from offset 14pt kromkote to Xerox paper and have 0 issues. Digital sheet, non digital does not matter for us. We have the clear toner but are unable to sell it. The 800 is a faster machine then the 8000 when you are not printing single sided 24# 8.5x11's if that is an issue for you. The 800 will run at rated speed up to 350gsm.


My suggestion to you would be to take a case of the stock you use the most to demo at each machine. Don't let the rumors of stock not running in the 800 deter you.

[rockin57rod]

everyone points a finger at the stock...that's the stock answer to any problem!

I would suggest that you vist a few technical sites and find out what the guys that fix these machines think....it's amazing what you can find out when you talk to a tech'

[printer in heart]

We are in the process of looking at these two machines and I have a couple of questions for this group.

Xerox qualifies Xerox papers only and I've heard different opinions regarding whether or not I could run non-certified papers through the 800. Some have said as long as I run digital papers I should be fine but my thought is, and from what I've also heard, if I start having issues Xerox would question my use of stock not qualified by Xerox. I would think this would could be a real service issue so most would recommend using the more expensive Xerox papers to alleviate finger pointing. I would like to know what the 800 users recommend.

Concerning the optional clear toner on the 800, are you seeing much request for this?

I did a water test on a C8000 sheet and the Xerox 800 sheet where I tried to duplicate rain drops on the sheet. After sitting on the sheet for 2 minutes and gently wiping the excess, the Xerox toner was removed when wiped off but the C8000 sheet was fine. Are users concerned with how a digital sheet will hold up to "rain" and is this typical of a toner based product. I was quite impressed that the Konica sheet showed no signs of degrading.

Thanks for the feedback.

Hello, I've been running Xerox 1000 for over a year using all kinds of paper, from offset 50lb to coated paper and I have no problems at all, Most of the time I use Supreme Silk paper. When it comes to cover stock, I like to use Xerox Elite Gloss Cover. The reason for it during folding /making booklets, ink doesn’t crack as much as on other covers.

Clear Toner - I have a few jobs, but I don't think you need to get it unless you have a need for it. I like my Xerox techs and they help me a lot if I have any copy quality issues. But I have no complains about my printer.

[chadfield]

It sounds like we would most likely not be confined to Xerox stocks if we went that direction, definitely would need more research though.
That's what I've heard about the clear toner... pretty cool, just not much request.
Thanks for all input.