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Thread: Help!! Which one to go with!

  1. #11
    Josh is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    If you plan on doing any off line finishing you might want to look at this. Take 250 to 500 print samples with moderate to heavy toner 4/4 coverage and jog them, run them through your folder, cut them. You may be surprised at what you find. In our experience the prints from a Konica were very slippery, very hard to handle and did not register well in our Baum 2020 folder (which is fairly new and in immaculate condition). We did this with prints from Xerox and Konica (which were he only machines we were looking at). When doing a demo I wouldn't consider it "real" without printing at least 1000 sheets of various stocks. You may find the value for the money gets lost in the finishing because of added labor.
    Hi Craig,

    That's an interesting point... was that between the Xerox 8080 and Konica 8000?

    How does the output compare on the 8080 compared to the Xerox 8000? Are there big differences to mechanics of the fuser?

  2. #12
    atprinter is offline Junior Member
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    Craig, You are very much right. Demo machines, aren't they always looks great! I don't think they will let me run 250 to 500 print samples, unless I go for the new machine, you know. Based on your experience, does Xerox(or was that between 700 and 5501 machine) handle(color, registration) better than Konica?

    Anyone have experience on c9075pro, I just been told the price is similar to X700, does it worth to try(demo)? I'm just tired go through demo again, because all these machines print out are much similar, all I need the machine is reliable, consistent and predictable - no surprise.

    Thanks all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    If you plan on doing any off line finishing you might want to look at this. Take 250 to 500 print samples with moderate to heavy toner 4/4 coverage and jog them, run them through your folder, cut them. You may be surprised at what you find. In our experience the prints from a Konica were very slippery, very hard to handle and did not register well in our Baum 2020 folder (which is fairly new and in immaculate condition). We did this with prints from Xerox and Konica (which were he only machines we were looking at). When doing a demo I wouldn't consider it "real" without printing at least 1000 sheets of various stocks. You may find the value for the money gets lost in the finishing because of added labor.
    Last edited by atprinter; 01-20-2013 at 05:28 PM.

  3. #13
    Craig's Avatar
    Craig is offline Senior Member
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    Josh, yes it was between the 8080 and 8000 as well as KM7000 (thought about getting 2 of them). The differences in the fusers are... well different all together. But here is a fact. The 8080 in All weights mode does not slow down, no matter what the paper weight is. The 8000 slows down over 300gsm to a crawl (I think it's 300gsm, if I'm wrong I'll stand corrected). So if your like me and run a lot of cover weights then you will see the difference. That's why I was looking at 2 KM7000 because they would outpace the single 8000 on cover weight stock. The print quality on the KM machines are fine from my tests. Each machine class has good and bad points, you need to make a list of them and see which one fits your situation better.

    atprinter - I'm sorry I really don't have experience on those machines. You tell the sales monkey you WILL be running as many sheets as you think are required for a good demo, or the deal is off the table. Believe me these guys are hurting for a sale and will do what you want.

  4. #14
    atprinter is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks Craig, I will do more demo before decide!!
    I asked KM for information on 6501 cos I think 5501 is slow when printing heavy stocks, will see what they come back (that was 3 days ago, no reply... hmm...).

    Xerox just asked me to wait a week or two, they said they can do a "significant" deal, sounds interesting!


    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    atprinter - I'm sorry I really don't have experience on those machines. You tell the sales monkey you WILL be running as many sheets as you think are required for a good demo, or the deal is off the table. Believe me these guys are hurting for a sale and will do what you want.

  5. #15
    lfelton is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    ... The 8000 slows down over 300gsm to a crawl (I think it's 300gsm, if I'm wrong I'll stand corrected)...
    As far as I've been told the actual figures are (all SRA3, other sizes will vary):

    46ppm SRA3 up to 135gsm
    40ppm SRA3 up to 300gsm
    23ppm SRA3 up to 350gsm

    So there is a big speed decrease ABOVE 300gsm, but not at 300gsm. We have no complaints over the speed of the c8000, but then again we are not running heavyweight stock through it all day, our work tends to be very mixed.

    Of course you need to understand the other limitations (that KM won't be so keen to let you know):

    (1) No duplexing above 300gsm
    (2) No use of the HD stacker (with dolly) on heavyweight stock. From memory that means approximately 250gsm and above and this is a real pain in the backside. Especially so if you are predominantly running heavy stock.

    So, some good news (not as slow as Craig feared, actually pretty darn good), BUT some other bad news if you are running a lot of heavy stock.

    Hope that helps.

  6. #16
    atprinter is offline Junior Member
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    Ok... I got Konica back to me regarding the C6501 price, apparently the machine has done very little only 300k, so will be more money than 5501.

    Xerox also came back to me with a new X700 deal, they are trying to match the C5501 price!! X700 was double the price of C5501, now they try to match the price... interesting! The sale coming tomorrow will see what happen...

    So... If X700 and C5501/6501 are same price and similar configurations, which one do you pick?

    Thanks

  7. #17
    Craig's Avatar
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    x700 hands down! Keep in mind that the mid level production machines are not selling lot hotcakes right now, so sales monkeys are going to be a little more aggressive.

    Good Luck!!

  8. #18
    atprinter is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks Craig.

    I just got Xerox sale sent me the new deal... disappointed, I think I was totally misunderstanding!! Still double the price of a 5501. I can get 2x C5501 = 110pages per min =), still have few thousands extra for a new 3D 55 inch TV!!

    I was almost decided go to X if the price match, well I am wrong again. They said X machines are always cost top $$, guess it is right and must stop dreaming now... business is business

    Thanks.
    Last edited by atprinter; 02-06-2013 at 04:27 AM.

  9. #19
    Craig's Avatar
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    Definitely an apples to crab apples kinda comparison though. The 5501 is an office copier (fast plastic) and the 700 is an entry level production box. The 5501 will not perform in a production environment for the length of the lease in my opinion.

    I hope you have good lock with it!!

  10. #20
    chrisg42 is offline Member
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    The 5501 is a 6501 with reduced speed and limited options. We successfully used a 6500 for light production for 5 years, until we upgraded to an 8000. Whilst the 5501 is not from the latest generation (effectively replaced by 6000L), it could be a good buy if the fit is right.

    If you are set on having a 700, tell Xerox you are pretty well decided on the 5501. I was offered a 770 last year at a fire-sale price in an attempt to lure me away from KM. With all suppliers of this type of kit, don't take "no" for an answer when it comes to price; keep pressing and you might be surprised.


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