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  1. #11
    Marci K is offline Junior Member
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    Good afternoon, I feel compelled to point out that this thread appears to be mixing two programs -- one is the program in Austrialia -- which does have levels and really seeks to help certify to the ISO 14001 standard -- the international standard for EMS development. I would have to double check, but I dont think the ISO standard even discusses the types of materials used, but provides a facility with the means to integrate environmental issues into their overall operations.

    Regarding the SGP program in the states -- I am not sure how many of the original printers are certified, but I do know that the program has hit 29 facilities -- it is a rigourous program, and does include elements of responsible sourcing and management.

    I would be interested in continuing this dialogue....

  2. #12
    Lukew is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marci K View Post
    Good afternoon, I feel compelled to point out that this thread appears to be mixing two programs -- one is the program in Austrialia -- which does have levels and really seeks to help certify to the ISO 14001 standard....
    No confusion this end, as previous post show, Greenprinter has listed that America only has one level of SGP certification and I have listed a breif outline of the four SGP certification levels offered in Australia.

    The question that may never be answered is, why throughout the SGP certifications either in Australia or America has the full gamute of print manufacturing not been addressed ?

    I have listed only a very small amount of chemicals that are still allowed to be used even though one is SGP certified. I find it very hard to grasp that SUSTAINABLE "GREEN" and these type of chemicals can go hand in hand.


    Printing industries has set very clear guidelines and steps that need to be implemented, but from what I can see when it comes to the chemistry and ink useage the guidelines are very relaxed.

    PIAA have failed to reply to my email, and list the set chemical /ink guidelines they are enforcing per each level of certification.

    I take the lack of response means they have not set out guidelines.
    IPA % What is the maximum % allowed to be used in fountain solutions ?
    Roller & Blanket washes - What is the maximum VOC g/l level allowed ?
    List of chemicals that are not allowed to be used ?

    From what I have read from the SGP folders, they have not set any level restrictions or put together a list of chemicals that are not to be used if one is certified.

  3. #13
    Green Printer is offline Senior Member
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    [QUOTE=Marci K;160387

    Regarding the SGP program in the states -- I am not sure how many of the original printers are certified, but I do know that the program has hit 29 facilities -- it is a rigourous program, and does include elements of responsible sourcing and management.

    I would be interested in continuing this dialogue....[/QUOTE]

    Responsible sourcing and management ????
    You can use just about any chemical you want as long as you have permits and proper paper work.

  4. #14
    Lukew is offline Senior Member
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  5. #15
    Lukew is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marci K View Post
    I would be interested in continuing this dialogue....
    ???? It would be good to get a responce or some further insite from your perspective on this topic

  6. #16
    RenatoAnisio is offline Junior Member
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    Cool Sustained Certifications/ Renato

    Pretty good your points and very deep... I agree...

    I live in Brazil(São Paulo) and in printing Industry, I´m quite sure there´s none yet completely certificated , only paper(FSC).


    I got to know some serious guys in Miami- Certified Green partners, having Mr. Gus Casamayor, as the encharged man at the institution. They got take even fountain solution and IPA out of their printing process achieving a brand new technology from Japan, named LB-801It´s quite amazing this tecnology enabling printing without toxic chemicals, only plain water.
    perhaps you guys want take a look at Certified Green Partners - Home
    They already had FSC, for paper, and certificated inks. After the installation of this system they got the certification.
    In my opinion, and I think most of those in this group, certificating a factory still using IPA and fountain solution, can not be a serious certification!







    Quote Originally Posted by Lukew View Post
    I have emailed PIAA SGP, on numerous ocassions to get an answer regarding chemical useage and sustainablility. Still to this day they have not answered, and I'm begining to think it could be a very very touchy subject and hence I will not recieve a reply.

    They currently still have 4 levels here,
    Level 1* (Costs & Training Member cost $3,200**. Non member $6,400)
    Based on the successful Green Stamp program set up in Western Australia and now modified by Printing Industries as an introductory and certifiable standard, Level 1 is the first stepping stone. It focuses on waste, storage and handling and recycling. It is ideal for the small company starting down the compliance path. SGP Level 1 covers record-keeping, compliance and cleaner production practices and waste management. It includes a simple environmental management system (EMS) that is your pathway to environmental sustainability.

    Level 2 (Costs & Training Member cost $5,100**. Non member $10,200)
    This level steps up the environmental performance of your business. It introduces additional levels of management and control including the tracking of waste streams and brings in a focus on your energy consumption and carbon footprint. SGP Level 2 provides key performance indicators for printing businesses covering waste, recycling, energy, water, incident management, storage and handling of printing chemicals, energy and air emissions.

    Level 3 (Cost & Training Member cost $8,600**. Non member $17,200)
    On completion of the SGP Level 3 audit, your company is prepared for ISO 14001 certification (if desired). SGP Level 3 provides you with all the necessary groundwork including documentation and Key Performance Indicators customised to your printing company's conditions. By having print-specific key performance indicators and guidelines, achieving your ISO14001 certification is simplified and your compliance costs are significantly reduced.

    Level 4 ( not listed)
    There will be a small number of companies wishing to go beyond ISO14001.Level 4 SGP makes this possible. Level 4 has a minimum ISO 14001 entry level (SGP Level 3). Level 4 guides printing businesses in Best Practice processes/procedures. It also requires a demonstration of continuous improvement in those companies. Please contact Printing Industries if you would like to join our pilot program for this level
    Level 3 & 4 do suggest for you to reduce chemical useage, but still do not set gudelines on the type of chemicals that can be used


    The business I'm working at, is aiming for level 2 at the moment and is due to be ordited soon. Management has kept me away from the Implementor/ Trainer as they know my thoughts and the questions / statements I have.

    Greenprinter: I have printed out your WHEN DOES IT PAY OFF and handed it to management, I'm still not sure if the light when on in their head and they understood it..

    Chemical & Ink useage plays a very big part into sustainability, There are important questions that need to be answered here and it is time PIA steps up to the plate and offers some no spin answers.

    It would be facinating to see a cradle to grave study done on products that contain
    Aromatic /Aliphatic hydrocarbon petrolleum distillate products
    mineral based inks
    nasty products such as toluene, benzene, isopropanol etc.....

    PIAA - SGP are charging massive fee's for companies to achieve a certification for sustainable operations, but they are refusing to get to the heart of what will continue to hinder this industry from ever being sustainable without GREENWASHING....

    All to often you here through suppliers / fellow printers, that it can't be done; My answer to this is yes it can and has been for the last 20+ years though companies that are striving to be sustainable without the greenwashing.

  7. #17
    Lukew is offline Senior Member
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    Thanks for the like RenatoAnisio , I will check that out in more depth when I have time. The zero fountain solution, just water looks interesting, but not sure how practical it would be.

    We are now level 2 SGP certified and aiming towards level 3.

    What a joke!

    There has been zero focus on the type of chemicals used, just a focus that we have the relevant MSDS for all chemicals.

    I have chosen by choice to use the safest chemicals that "work" that are available at this stage in Australia. Still a fair margin away from the products available in the USA, but a move in the right direction non the less.

    The other printers, still use super fast evaporating blanket washes, and other high VOC products.
    One of the presses was running at 15% IPA, due to roller issues, to get work done during the audit process . The factory stunk, but still no questions were asked.

    I still believe the SGP certified process & the use of it's logo is green washing

  8. #18
    RenatoAnisio is offline Junior Member
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    Default More informations

    Hi Lukew, thanks for your reply

    You´re relly well informed regarding sustainable issues.
    If you wanna know a little more regarding this technology.
    I´m representative for the equipment in Brazil. My intention is not
    sell to you or any other else, my actuation area is really too far from you...
    I tried atttach some informations, tell me if you go it.
    Anyway I have Two installations in Brazil running on a web off-set in one of the biggest plants in brazil. Running pretty well. You get to see the results! FAntastic! Water pans pretty clean!!

    Bye, and Regards!

    Renato.

  9. #19
    Lukew is offline Senior Member
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    No links have come through, but alas I'm just a simple printer so have no say over management of equipment or major changes.

    I have seen the couple of short video's regards this system but I have my reservations.
    1) "Claiming that using this system means there will be zero petroleum chemicals used on the press."

    This would mean that you also offer or have teamed up with another company (ie: Genesis/Habitat or other supplier) to offer the full gamut of press chemicals that contain zero petrochemicals.
    "Blanket & roller care products - Plate care products - system cleaners & general cleaners"

    2) Plate life - All fountain solutions have a range of chemicals in them to help preserve & protect the plate (Using just water how is the plate protected ?)

    3) Blanket release - All fountain solutions are made to help with blanket release, some work better then others. Is the blanket release raised or decreased with just the use of water ?

    4) Ok the molecular structure of the water is changed so that it reacts & spreads on the plate similar to the use of fountain solution & IPA. But do special inks need to be used ?
    Currently there are 2 types of fountain solutions ( solvent based " ethylene glycols etc" / non- solvent based "surfactants etc" )
    The non solvent based fountain solutions do not run with normal inks and will not clean the plate effectively if standard inks are used.

    I'm intrigued to know how well does straight water clean up an ink stained plate ?

  10. #20
    Coastline's Avatar
    Coastline is offline Junior Member
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    Some interesting points here.

    In the UK most printers advertise their FSC paper certification and that they use vegetable based inks; thinking that is enough to entitle them to Environmentally Friendly status.
    In the meantime they are making their way through huge quantities of IPA and high VOC washes etc.

    We have been introducing products to minimise this by use of;
    1) IPA free printing
    2) Aromatic free washes
    3) Solvent free blankets

    Unfortunately, if there is no certification available that takes this into account, then the majority of printers have no real incentive, apart from common sense.
    Last edited by Coastline; 01-31-2012 at 12:41 PM. Reason: wording


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