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  1. #1
    Green Printer is offline Senior Member
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    Default Fogra New Testing Procedure

    I seen this link provided by Sustainable.

    http://www.fogra.org/approvals/washe...o/i-washes.pdf

    I think it is good.

    Are there any other observations or opinions on Forga's new wash testing criteria?

    After digging a little deeper I see that there is nothing mentioned about the EU Reach list of chemicals. I would highly suggest that Fogra include the Reach list in their specifications. Also they should include the USA SARA 313 list.
    Last edited by Green Printer; 02-16-2012 at 10:51 PM.

  2. #2
    Lukew is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Printer View Post
    After digging a little deeper I see that there is nothing mentioned about the EU Reach list of chemicals. I would highly suggest that Fogra include the Reach list in their specifications. Also they should include the USA SARA 313 list.
    I assume you mean any chemical on said list would not meet the fogra criteria, if so:
    Never likely to happen !
    $$$$ Thats what the Fogra team will loose, if they were to set the guidelines too strict.

    It would be a lot easier if there was a worldwide recognised standard for chemical safety. For instance there are chemicals that are listed on sara title 313 / prop 65 etc, that don't rate a mention here in Aus.

    Makes you wonder is it that one area is going over board in relation to chemical health issues or another place is being lax..

  3. #3
    Sustainable is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukew View Post
    I assume you mean any chemical on said list would not meet the fogra criteria, if so:
    Never likely to happen !
    $$$$ Thats what the Fogra team will loose, if they were to set the guidelines too strict.

    It would be a lot easier if there was a worldwide recognised standard for chemical safety. For instance there are chemicals that are listed on sara title 313 / prop 65 etc, that don't rate a mention here in Aus.

    Makes you wonder is it that one area is going over board in relation to chemical health issues or another place is being lax..
    Lesson #1
    Chemical Benzene benzene - Google Search

    Benzene is on the EU Reach, Sara title 313 and Prop 65 list.
    Virtually all printing employes have been or still are being exposed to Benzene.
    Benzene is a world wide recognized CARCINOGEN.

  4. #4
    Green Printer is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukew View Post
    I assume you mean any chemical on said list would not meet the fogra criteria, if so:
    Never likely to happen !
    $$$$ Thats what the Fogra team will loose, if they were to set the guidelines too strict.

    It would be a lot easier if there was a worldwide recognized standard for chemical safety. For instance there are chemicals that are listed on sara title 313 / prop 65 etc, that don't rate a mention here in Aus.

    Makes you wonder is it that one area is going over board in relation to chemical health issues or another place is being lax..
    Here is a very interesting point that will start to pop up all over the world. When an organization says a chemical is safe to use they have now made themselves libelous for those exposed to those chemicals.
    The EU REACH, Sara title 313 and prop 65 list of chemicals are all documented as health risk and or hazards.

    Does Fogra have enough insurance to cover all of the potential claims from products that they say are safe. If they have all of the paper work to prove otherwise to go against the EU, EPA and the state of California showing them they are wrong and flawed go ahead and put the on the Fogra approved label.

    Benzene is in litigation in many countries and is well documented yet Fogra has it on their list of OK chemicals if it is just a little bit less than .1 percent or 1000 parts per million.

  5. #5
    Dan Roll is offline Senior Member
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    "Does Fogra have enough insurance to cover all of the potential claims from products that they say are safe. If they have all of the paper work to prove otherwise to go against the EU, EPA and the state of California showing them they are wrong and flawed go ahead and put the on the Fogra approved label."

    There is a lot of miss-understanding regarding what Fogra means by "safe". Fogra certification implies a product will not harm the equipment manufactured by the companies that bankroll Fogra, no more, no less. Fogra certification does not mean a product will perform the task it is designed for well, or at all. There is no implication regarding safety for the user expressed or implied.
    Daniel T Roll
    904-305-2517

  6. #6
    Green Printer is offline Senior Member
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    There is a lot of miss-understanding regarding what Fogra means by "safe". Fogra certification implies a product will not harm the equipment manufactured by the companies that bankroll Fogra, no more, no less. Fogra certification does not mean a product will perform the task it is designed for well, or at all. There is no implication regarding safety for the user expressed or implied.[/QUOTE]

    Read this link http://www.fogra.org/approvals/washe...o/i-washes.pdf

    Section 1,2 and 3 are all referring to the chemical safety issues.

  7. #7
    Dan Roll is offline Senior Member
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    If you read http://www.fogra.org/approvals/washe...o/i-washes.pdf carefully (as I have) sections 1, 2, and 3 refer to chemicals that Fogra prohibits, but not because they might pose a hazard to you. The pdf clearly states the agreement is for the protection of the equipment first with one indirect reference to the environment. Certification only implies that the wash approved did not swell or otherwise damage the elastomer samples Forgra uses to represent rollers and seals. I have not had much contact with Fogra over the last six or seven years, but have had many conversations with Dr. Rauh since Fogra took the approval programs over from the Munich Technical Institute (where Dr. Schmidt was in charge) and he has always been careful not to position Fogra as an environmental or safety approval company. Fogra's staff are chemists and chemical engineers, not Doctors or medical researchers.
    Daniel T Roll
    904-305-2517

  8. #8
    Lukew is offline Senior Member
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    Dan, Perhaps you missed the word that I have put brackets around, it is in that fogra article under number 1.
    1: Details of the compositions must
    be supplied to the “Berufsgenossenschaft
    Druck und Papierverarbeitung”
    (Institution for statutory
    accident insurance and prevention
    in the printing and paper processing
    industry) (BG ETEM — BG Energie Textil Elektro Medienerzeugnisse) to enable
    the (((health)))) risks to be assessed. This
    information is obviously treated as
    highly confidential. The address is
    given below.


    But in number 2 they are only talking about engineering and of environmental
    protection. So fogra need to clear this up.

    As for litigation on their behalf, if in deed they were talking about human health I personaly think they would be covered in some form of fine print.
    .01% benzen. Comeon green printer that is such a miniscule amount. You would be subject to far greater levels then that just in day to day living.
    Last edited by Lukew; 02-17-2012 at 04:06 PM.

  9. #9
    Green Printer is offline Senior Member
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    Lukew


    Safety Engineering not just enginnering

    2. Those involved in this industry sector initiative have, taking into account the current state of the art of SAFETY ENGINEERING and of environmental protection, agreed to issue the following recommendations with regard to the use of washing agents:
    ¬ Flash point above 55 °C
    ¬ Benzene content less than 0.1 %
    ¬ Toluene and xylene content less
    than 1 %
    ¬ Aromatic content less than 1 %

    Benzene MSDS http://www.hovensa.com/pdf/Benzene.pdf
    Look at section 8 exposure limits
    Section 9 odor threshold 4.7ppm
    Last edited by Green Printer; 02-17-2012 at 05:44 PM.

  10. #10
    Sustainable is offline Banned
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