Paper and quality - How to differentiate?

[mattf]

How can you tell a low quality paper from a high quality paper?

What are the factors in determining the quality of a certain type of paper?

Does GSM, Calipher, M-weight have anything to do with it? I assume Opacity does.

I know this is materials 101 garble, but I gotta start somewhere :P

[gordo]

I think that the definition of "quality" paper is not an absolute but depends on whether you're a Design Agency, Publisher, Printer, or Paper Manufacturer since each will have different criteria against which they will evaluate the "quality" of the paper. High/low quality are meaningless terms. Suitability is more appropriate.

best, gordon p
my print blog here: Quality In Print

[mattf]

I think that the definition of "quality" paper is not an absolute but depends on whether you're a Design Agency, Publisher, Printer, or Paper Manufacturer since each will have different criteria against which they will evaluate the "quality" of the paper. High/low quality are meaningless terms. Suitability is more appropriate.

best, gordon p
my print blog here: Quality In Print

If "suitability" is more appropriate, why are the prices for paper all over the place?

For Example: (Numbers aren't exact, rounded for example sake)

Neehah Paper Inc.

1) Classic Crest Cover 80lb Solar White - $120 dollars per 2000 packed carton

vs.

2) Classic Crest Cover 110lb Solar White - $170 per 1500 packed carton

Its the same cover stock, just a higher weight value. Does that mean heavier stock has higher "quality" or its just more expensive because more resources were used to manufacture the paper?

[gordo]

Its the same cover stock, just a higher weight value. Does that mean heavier stock has higher "quality" or its just more expensive because more resources were used to manufacture the paper?

The 110 lb cover weight is a heavier weight paper and as a result contains more fiber/filler i.e. resources and is therefore more expensive to manufacture hence the higher cost.

It has nothing to do with quality.

best, gordon p

[GazKL440]

I agree with Gordo re the suitability point and his answer to Mattf.. its also a perception of quality point too: heavier stock "feels" more expensive, high end companies (legal firms, doctors etc) dont use cheap stock for their letterheads(for example) but in my experience will use an expensive watermarked or laid stock of heavier grammage, whereas a plumber will generally be happy with a plain 80gsm offset(no offense to plumbers intended!!). Perceived quality of services can be projected by high quality print on high quality paper. From a printers point of view, good quality paper can make a massive difference to productivity, blood pressure levels and hair line recedence rates.. Any given job will give you a better result on better paper with less drama, and any given job can be turned into an absolute nightmare by an inappropriate or plain bad paper. An on press case in point, from a job we printed recently, a medium difficult job with a heavy density print run on poor quality 100gsm gloss resulted in an on floor average of around 6-7000 per hour over the 9 or so days we ran it, with an average fit achieved resulting in compromised quality.. acceptable but not perfect. When i ran some better quality higher weight stock the fit came in perfectly, and 15000sph was no problem... give me good stock all day please!!

From my point of view, good paper is what works best on my machine, gives the best result with minimal problems and keeps the client happy.. end of story

[RGPW17100]

Some of the 110 lb stocks were made because foreign sheets were made thinner then US sheets. We used a GPA 100 lb gloss cover that did not qualify for letter rates at 9 thousands. They started producing a 110 lb stock so that is would be letter legal for the post office. We just finished 400K run using Classic Crest 80 lb Avon Brilliant white that chaulked the blanets and caused hickeys worse then any stock I have ever seen before. Then using starbrite offset which is a cheap opaque ran flawlessly for over 100K. The best you can do is experiment with various sheets and then keep using one you find does all the following.
Affordable
Prints good and stays flat
Will fold and score without cracking

We are currently using Flo as our house sheet. It is only like a 88 bright but it is clean, folds great, stays flat for backups on press and is made here in the US. Even though it is a number 3 sheet it has outperformed all of the other number 2 cheaper sheets we have tried. Eventually the sheet will be made greener and we will probably have to switch. Keep looking and trying different things. Eventually you will find what you are looking for.

[Mathavan]

Hi any one can help to find best and simple way to estimate product cost for label, tag and brand packakge (tea box such type)

[whoami]

one of the ways we judge the quality of our paper is by the white point. We also look for a manufacturer guarantee that the color of the paper will not drift by more than 1 or 2 deltaE. We look that there are not a lot of UV brighteners. I think if you get a special light and shine it on the paper it will glow if it has a lot of UV brighteners.

[mattf]

As I expected:

1) Use what works
2) Use what people want
3) Use what gives the least amount of variability

Thanks for the input. Next is to break down our 100+ so kinds of paper we have access to and get some general "pick and choose" kinds.