Question about ink rub

[dsspivak]

My printer and I are having a friendly disagreement over the type of paper to use in a high-end art/photography magazine. He believes we should use a gloss sheet and then give it an aqueous flood coating throughout. The problem is the sheet's brightness is too low for my liking.

I've found another sheet of paper that I like, it's about the same price as the gloss on 25 x 38, and it has a 95 brightness, much nicer. The problem is the printer feels this sheet is more of a matte than a true silk and is worried about if the ink will rub off of the paper.

Of course, we could use a spot varnish to protect the images on the silk sheet, but he told me he needs to make new plates specifically for just that and at a 15-signature magazine, that's going to be cost prohibitive in the range of $10,000+. He's running a Heidelberg XL-105 on 20 micron stochastic. Does anyone have ideas on how we can overcome this problem? He's going to test the sheet later this week for rub-off, but it doesn't sound very promising for me.

Alternatively, I could use a higher end silk, a Diamond silk, but that runs about $35/extra per thousand and I'm buying around 325,000 sheets.

[RGPW17100]

Seems to me if you aqueous that sheet it will not rub off. If the sheet is gloss I dont understand how it can be matte or silk. What is the stock you want to use?

[dsspivak]

Seems to me if you aqueous that sheet it will not rub off. If the sheet is gloss I dont understand how it can be matte or silk. What is the stock you want to use?

Sorry, my thought process isn't complete all the time. What I meant to say is that the gloss he wanted to use doesn't look right to me as far as the brightness level. It's too low. I found a silk sheet that I really like, but the printer isn't in love with it because it feels "too matte" and is concerned about ink rubbing off. The silk sheet has a 95 brightness. We're on a very strict budget, so upgrading to a higher end gloss that meets my brightness levels is nearly impossible without jacking up the price $10,000 or $20,000. I'm looking to acquire about 315,000 sheets of 25 x 38 70# text, gloss or silk for around $75/thousand that has a high brightness level.

[Guy DuHamel]

If the brightness level of the sheet you want to use is more important than the finish and feel of the sheet then go for it and use the flood aqueous. There are different types of aqueous (gloss, satin, matte) that could be used to get you back to approximately the uncoated feel but the most cost efficient is the flood for sure. It's all about putting something over the ink to protect it from the abrasion of a non-gloss surface rubbing on it in the finished piece.

[gordo]

And don't forget that varnish will yellow with age but aqueous won't.

best, gordon p

[alic57]

What about the inks. Is he using quickset or heatset, uv cured? The type of ink in addition to the substrate will affect rub-off. You can coat the shit out of anything bust gordon is right: varnish does yellow over time. Aqueous is basically a water-based plastic.

[George John]

The ink supplier should be able to come up with a hard dry, high rub/scuff resistant ink for the stock you like. Eventhough it is very difficult to prevent rub on matte stocks, they can add extra drier (3 way drier: through-drier,top drier and grapho drier ) and wax compounds to have less marking or rub in the bindery. Also if too much fountain solution is used during printing it will inhibit drying. The down side of too much drier is that the ink might cause piling on blankets.
George John