Ink transfer and paper curl

[Al Ferrari]

Sustainable we seen this about 6 or 7 years ago it tells it like it is. When you use ink and fountain solution made to work together taking into account the paper making process you encounter very few problems if any.

Well if you knew this all along, why didn't you involve your in supplier in searching a solution/explanation to the problem? and if you did get a response on this from the ink company, why haven't you shared that with us on this thread?

Al

[Erik Nikkanen]

Hi

Its possible to run without IPA?If possible how and which fount is suitable?

I worked for a flexible packaging printer, starting in 1984. They were not using IPA in their offset printing process. I suspect it is quite common for other printers printing for food packaging not to use IPA and they have been doing that a long time.

[Alois Senefelder]

Hello fellow Lithographers,


Answers to why does Paper Curl,Paper Peel on leaving the blanket, forget about the theories of -

High/Low VOCs in F.S. also the addition of extra paste driers into Ink.


The answer is the various properties of paper, such as a) Smoothness, b) Air Permeability, c) Paper Grain,

d) GSM, e)Speed. Other factors include, 1) Forces of Pressure, 2) Ink Tack.



Part 2 - later


Regards, Alois

[Green Printer]

Well if you knew this all along, why didn't you involve your in supplier in searching a solution/explanation to the problem? and if you did get a response on this from the ink company, why haven't you shared that with us on this thread?

Al

The 52,000 sheet job was started in 2004 and ran until 2010. The ink suppliers were given the paper manufacturing information. They all had the same response saying the paper sizing information was BS. Just keep using the high drier load ink with the high voc fountain solution. The BS answers were so common and from just about all the suppliers. You get tired of hearing the same BS over and over.

We had been working with a supplier continuously since 1992 on many other projects and presses. The supplier was 100% correct on all aspects of every project we had worked on together. In fact our whole shop except the one press that the 52,000 pc projects were manufactured on was the only one not using the system. The old pressman was very cantankerous and said it ain't broke since he was about to retire we let it ride. The change was made after his retirement. Best thing we every did now the whole shop is using the system and we have no troubles. We ran the job for an additional 3 years after he retired until mid 2010 when the contract was ended. The press was sold shortly thereafter.
We get our pressroom consumable supplies from BestChem Supply since 2006 and Amerikal since 1992.

[D Ink Man]

Then why hasn't Bob Danielson figured this out for you? You should know he is God's gift to lithography. Jeez...

[Lukew]

D Ink Man.
I may be wrong but I think the point of this thread was to get technical suppliers to put forth their thoughts and reasoning behind why the issue was occurring. Green Printer would have known or had his thoughts as to why it was happening

I wasn't around during the acid paper making days but if it is true that some fountain solutions PH have been changed in line with the shift to alkalyn paper making. What was the PH level of founts back then?

As looking at a lot of fountain solutions they are still ii the 3.5ph - 5ph range including the ones in question.

[D Ink Man]

Lukew
And I have offered two very good thoughts and reasonings as more information has become available. So yes, your thinking is correct.
D

[Green Printer]

Then why hasn't Bob Danielson figured this out for you? You should know he is God's gift to lithography. Jeez...

Follow the years when this job was manufactured. In December of 2006 working with Mr. Danielson the problem was solved almost 6 years ago. This was right after the cantankerous pressman retired. The job ran for another 53 times. over the next 3 years and a few months. The contract ended in mid 2010.
I wish to thank all of you for your views and insights it was quite educational.

[Green Printer]

Green Printer, do you care to share with us the reason for using so much dryer in a print run of that many sheets?

Al

I forgot the second part of this. The formula was from 2004 and is very similar in drier load to the ink formula recipe posted by D ink Man


Hand this Formula to Your Ink Supplier and Tell Him to Get Busy
Offset Sheet Fed D Ink Man Black


Hi Solids Gel Varnish 30.00
Hi Solids Free Flow Varnish 19.00
Terlon #3 Alkyd 4.00
Mogul L Carbon Black 8.00
Regal 400-R Carbon Black 10.00
Flush Alkali R/S 6.50
Dry PTFE 2.50
High melt PE Compound 3.00
Cobalt 12% Ten Cem 1.50
Manganese 12% Drier 1.50
Raw Linseed Oil 10.00
Chinawood Oil 4.00

T-O-T-A-L ___________
100.00

[D Ink Man]

Green Printer you are getting things very confused here.

That black formula you posted here was from another thread and for an entirely different purpose. That formula was posted originally by myself on 7-10-12 at 5:01 pm in the thread "printing on bond".

That black formula will help minimize picking off on the back cylinder with offset, bond paper. Entirely different subject.

It has nothing to do with this thread, because the problems and variations are not related to ink. This is a fountain solution and/or mechanical problem that are causing paper curl and runnability problems.

It is very possible if I were the resident ink tech working with the printer to resolve the issues, that black formula would not even be near to the formula I would provide. But again, this is not an ink problem and has nothing to do with drier amounts and such contained in the ink.

Now let's please rendezvous the ink content analysis for this thread and get back to the subject. Let's all try to play nice here for the good of the Planet. D