JDF for beginners

[PeterA]

I write our MIS system in FileMaker - Filemaker can export XML - how do I link it into a pre press workflow (Kodak) or Heidelberg presses and bindery
Peter

[alang66]

I don't think it's as easy as you first anticipate. The XML in JDF is quite complex and you would need a XSLT to convert Filemakers default output XML into something structured to JDF conventions. This XSLT would be worth it's weight in gold and to write it would take a long time. Whether anyone out there has created such an XSLT, I don't know. The more pertinent question if they have is would they make it available or want remunerating for it and if so – at what price.
I contemplated looking at this (we also use Filemaker/Prinergy) but in order to start, I would at least need the Synapse Link and it comes in varying strengths with increasing prices. To write JDFs into a hot folder and have Prinergy process the data would require a substantial investment for something that is just an idea. There would be no JMF compatibility I don't think, so you wouldn't be able to share the information each system has on a real time basis. The cost and effort of doing it just to be able to generate a Prinergy job from Filemaker data seemed too much.

[PeterA]

Thanks for reply - I will keep in touch - I have a meeting with the (UK) BPIF technical standards committee in two weeks and will bring it up - I think we need to get involved in CIP4 and make the interface user friendly - I doubt whether we are alone in having our own MIS system.

Peter

[HW]

Hi Peter

We are not full members of the BPIF, so I cant get involved with the commitee n(unless there is another way).

We are currenty in discussions with Iteba and Kodak and we expect to move forward very soon. Tharstens are holding a Openday on the 31st January at Watford (Kodak HQ). I will be there to see how MIS and prinergy can work together, should be very interesting.

Maybe see you there.


Dan

[PeterA]

Hi Dan

I am not sure whether Abdul (from Tharstens) will be up to it - but as you say I should be there

Peter

[Morning Flight]

Hi Peter,

Any news about the January meeting? As Alan pointed out, JDF integration into a home-grown MIS is probably not the sort of thing you'd want to undertake without serious committment. By serious I mean the level of committment brought to the table by the pig at a ham and egg breakfast, where only the chicken can afford to be merely dedicated.

At http://www.MorningFlight.com we're keeping an eye on JDF, but will likely remain a "dedicated" observer for a while longer. There is, however, an easy way for beginners to get their feet wet: Create a JDF from within Adobe Acrobat. See the flash Feature Tour at http://www.adobe.com/products/jdf/overview.html

To access the window below from within Acrobat, go to +*Advanced > Print Production > JDF Job Definition.*+

Hal

!http://www.printfire.com/Images/AcrobatJDF.jpg!

[dwanehollands]

Hi Peter,

JDF is something I'd really love to understand and be able to write by hand. It's the glue-of-the-future-of-automation! You could say I'm a little obsessed with JDF.

Not that I know much of it. (I'm sure there are many on the forum who are much more knowledgeable on the subject).

Being somewhat of a simpleton, I've been thinking of a simpler way of creating and manipulating JDF. At least the product description/Intent which applications such as Metrix lap up. So I've tinkered with Adobe Acrobat Professional 7.0 with the JDF Creation ability.

I created a simple product the other day and thought, "Why don't I open this in a text editor or a web browser to see if I can see anything that makes sense"

So I did and the following screenshot. (sorry it's pretty big)

!http://printplanet.com/discuss/servlet/JiveServlet/download/4-1512-12353-741/Picture%201.png!

Some of the 'variables' that are in file are pretty obvious since they're blue. So that led me to believe that's where the info is kept.

I thought, "What if I change those values" by opening the .jdf file in a text editor (OK, all you coders out there are probably saying, duh!). So I changed some details. (the size of the product is in points, so I divded it by 72 - 72 points to an inch and then converted to mm since I'm metric-orientated!).

I then saved the file and opened it in Acrobat Professional (JDF feature) and checked the specs. It had changed them to what I punched in.

My thought is you create a calcuation field within Filemaker (used to use it a lot!) and put the text in there, select the areas where there are variables (Such as 2000 for the amounts, 6 McCourt Rd Yarrawonga for street) with fields from your Filemaker data base. So when you export as a text file, it will populate the JDF with your data from your Filemaker records.

Major Set backs
# I'm an idiot and clueless about JDF
# This would only generate Product Intent not the imposition that Prinergy Connect/Evo or Heidelberg would require
# It would not be Extensible enough for all the jobs that you create in your MIS.
# Magazine work that requires multiple sections would require greater complexity and you'd need to figure out how to duplicate sections within JDF.

What I thought it would be good for, is if you have a web-to-print custom made system which has very, very basic products which you want to sell a lot of. Like business cards, brochures. Real simple work. This could possibly be an exported text file from the site (with .jdf extension of course) and be handy for handling lots of little jobs efficiently. But it would have to be imported into a smart program like Metrix or MIS which can take product intent JDF data.

The next step would be determining the Run list in JDF and be able to have the uploaded file put into it's own folder with the JDF in the folder and a relative link to the file put in the JDF under the run list, so that fully automatic imposition and processing could occur.

Pipe dreams, no less, but perhaps again food for thought. I'm open to better ideas!

[PeterA]

Dwana its good to see that u are keeping up with printers tradition - Download Fiemaker for a free trial - it really is the business and it exports XML - now I am waiting for Kodak to send me a file of what drives Prinergy - because as u have shown - its about fixed data and variables

peter

[dwanehollands]

Hi Peter,

Yeah, I've actually got two Filemakers! Version 7.0. I started developing our own MIS system years ago in 6.0. It grew into a behemoth that I could never finish.

Then brought in a coder friend to work on it, but he wasn't familiar with Filemaker, so it then went into a mySQL backend with a Java front end, but I wasn't able to dedicate my time to managing the project, since I was so busy doing other stuff and he wasn't very familiar with the printing industry, so we abandoned it.

Pretty much I was too Idealistic and didn't put a plan in place for a first phase, second phase etc.

Metrix does part of what we were planning.....brag brag brag.

[neotrog]

OK Gents. The summary I'd draw from this is as follows;

1.) JDF is like any other tag language. It can be edited in a text editor by those who are fluent in the language. A GUI would help the rest but yes, a clever guy can accomplish a lot in Notepad or BBedit.

2.) The JDF spec. is fluff. I'm ready for the death threats. You could trash the hundreds of pages of JDF specs. and just say "JDF is a special set of XML tags. There are some 20 or so common tags the committee has agreed on but all the useful stuff is vendor specific."

3.) That flows into the final problem I've been having with this. All the big players have invested the future of their revenue stream on products like Delano, WebCentre and InSite. They are never gonna give you the JDF tag documentation you'd need to effectively integrate with their back-ends.

Look even deeper. ApogeeX and Backstage take the JDF ( when present ) and use it to load up the SQL database that holds all the parameters that make the systems work. If you have an MIS department that is capable in SQL you can theoretically create job records directly just as we create invoice records on foreign accounting systems directly. JDF is an attempt to create a standard interface independent of either end system. This should allow portability and integration. A noble goal but it seems to me to have fallen far short of being usable. AgfaEsKodak seems loathe to share the nitty-gritty which is why JDF has gotten pushed up to the level it's at instead of a standardization of SQL tables and records. As soon as I know the database layout of a job ticket I can write my on web interface to directly push the system. I can save 10s, perhaps 100s of thousands of dollars in "Web Portal" licensing fees using open source software.