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  1. #1
    PrePressLacky's Avatar
    PrePressLacky is offline Junior Member
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    Default PrePress Mistakes

    I work in a web printshop in the prepress department and lately we have been having problems with the way the jobs are being checked we are using the check list system but it hasnt been the best of friends to us. we had a job were the wrong pages were placed on a couple of versions in Apogee most of them were caught except for like 2. Most of the errors that are made here are human error which has dropped quite a bit but to the extent that we need to be in. We are trying to find a way to minimize the mistakes being made in the department because the press crews do not ttrust us when they should. are there any suggestions we could use other then the checklist any ideas will be worth a shot.

  2. #2
    craiglpress is offline Member
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    Default Proofing Best Practices

    With the adoption of digital proofs, laser proofs, and CTP, many companies have circumvented some fundamental procedures; contributing to significant spoilage costs. You can significantly reduce spoilage by implementing better procedures for producing proofs and approving production makereadies.

    The following procedures will help to ensure that the final product is technically correct prior to running a job. Once the job is printed it is too late! The idea is to catch the mistakes before they get further down the production process and increase in spoilage cost. The little time and costs these proactive procedures may add to the production process is considerably justifiable by the savings in spoilage, improved quality, and improved customer satisfaction.

    Imposition Proofs - Prior to imaging plates, digital imposition proofs should be made of each signature to verify the position, layout, pagination, marks, trims, bleeds, and content; prior to plating or press. Imposition proofs are typically the size of the press plate and can be a digital Dylux, Sherpa, Spinjet, or HP Inkjet proof.

    Folded Dummy - Optionally, a second set of imposition proofs can be made, gathered, and trimmed in the book format. The "folded dummy" is an important aid to ensure the job is technically correct for cutting, folding, and binding; prior to plating or press.

    Press Rule-up Sheet - All jobs and signatures should have a rule-up press sheet on which rules have been drawn to show trim, final size, spine, perforations, folding, etc. The rule-up sheet is verified against the Imposition Proof made in prepress. This is a double check of the mechanical layout to verify that the signature will trim and bind correctly, that the pages are in the correct order, and that there is enough bleed. Mechanical correctness must be confirmed at the press during the makeready. Once the operator is confident that the signature is technically and visually correct, the pressroom supervisor should approve the job for running by signing the press rule-up sheet. This is where the term “Signature” originated.

    Hope this helps.

    Craig L Press, Printing Industry Business Consultant
    Profectus Printing Industry Business Consultants specializing in best practices, lean, and information technology

  3. #3
    Lukas Engqvist's Avatar
    Lukas Engqvist is offline Senior Member
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    Default

    Could you please clarify difference between Imposition proof and Press Rule-up Sheet? We have our Imposition proofs ruled up. Do you mean that the Press Rule-up Sheet is ruling up one of the first in the actual print run? Or is it a second imposition?

  4. #4
    David Dodd is offline Member
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    Default

    The first step toward eliminating mistakes is to understand why those mistakes are occuring in the first place. You say that most of the mistakes you're experiencing are caused by "human error." The important question is: Why are these human errors happening? The "lean" way to address an issue like this is to use a process called "5 Whys." When a mistake is discovered, pull together the appropriate people and ask why the mistake occurred. Keep asking the question "Why" until you uncover the root cause of the problem. Once the root cause of the problem is clear, the solution is often obvious.

    The proofing procedures suggested by Craig Press are certainly sound. And I agree that the cost of performing those procedures is probably minimal compared to the cost of reprinting jobs on a regular basis. However, these procedures do add costs and consume resources, and they may or may not directly address the root cause or causes of your mistakes. So, first understand what is causing your mistakes to occur, and then design a countermeasure that addresses that cause.
    G. David Dodd
    Point Balance, LLC

  5. #5
    craiglpress is offline Member
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    Default

    A Press Rule-up Sheet is the rule-up of an actual printed sheet that comes off the press during the makeready and just prior to pproducing good product. Its your final makeready check before running the job.

    An Imposition proof comes off a proofing device such as a digital Dylux, Sherpa, Spinjet, or HP Inkjet printer.

  6. #6
    PrePressLacky's Avatar
    PrePressLacky is offline Junior Member
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    Default

    We print out Hi Rez for each job on a Sherpa44 and all our impos are put together by the production manager and given to us, our low rez (blue lines) are made and proofed press ready so there is no cutting involved just checking measurements. This is thing our process isnt that complex yet these things are still happening. I will throw the 5 whys to my prepress manager to see what he thinks. Thanks Craig and David the info was very helpful.

  7. #7
    mvogel is offline Junior Member
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    Default Color Proof?

    In addition to the 3 proofs (impo proof, folding dummy and ruled-up proof), do you use another proof for your pressroom to match for color? What type of proofs are you using and are they mocked up for production, or are they only used as color targets? We have multiple proofs (like those listed above), and have trouble with our press operators knowing what their target is. Thanks for the help!

  8. #8
    gumbylives is offline Member
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    Default some other things...

    Have several people look at the proof. Is there a schematic that is with the job...re: versions. Ask ask and ask. Never assume someone else has it covered. Is your docket information complete or close to complete when you receive the job? (most are not). make up a checklist...are there versions on the job and what are the plate changes for that. create a plate change form. check overprint. check 4/c blk. make up a list from all the questions you think are pertinent and have this form follow the job. It helps.

  9. #9
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    Default I feel your pain.

    "The relentless pursuit of perfection." I'd like to kill the little son of a #$%@ that coined that phrase.

    The reason you keep making mistakes is because you're not Jesus, and no matter how hard you try to become Jesus you will always fall short.

    Remember, pressman are inherently evil and were put on this earth to constantly remind prepress operators of their shortcomings. Prepress operators were put on this earth to endure the suffering of the human race, much like Jesus. This is why we feel the burden to strive for perfection in our work, and suffer so much shame when we inevitably make a mistake. We are mocked by owners, sales people, CSR's, client's, pressman and bindery operators every time we substitute the wrong font because it wasn't supplied, or use the wrong InDesign file after the client uploads 5 revisions all with the same file name.

    But fear not my brethren, for ye thou mayest suffer long, yet be of good cheer! Remember, pressman make mistakes too, but nobody ever sees them because the client only sees the "good" samples. Sales people make mistakes every day when they show up at 10am, leave at 2pm and expect prepress to explain to their clients how to ftp files to prepress when the web site has clear instructions. CSR's make mistakes on estimates, but they just make it up on the next quote and count on the salesman's inability to actually read a quote. Client's makes mistakes, but that's why we have jobs. Bindery operators make mistakes, but they lose fingers when they do, so that's a big incentive to not screw up. Owners make a mistake every time they hire a sales person.

    Our company has tried many ingenious ways to eliminate mistakes, and they always pour more responsibilities and red tape onto the already battered and beaten backs of prepress. Prepress has performed rule-ups for pressman, collected and sorted press sheets, filled preflight and proofing check lists, hired proof readers, filled out Corrective Action Forms when a mistake was made so that the shame from the mistake can be stored in a database and printed for future reference, but none of this prevented human error.

    When problems arise, our management brain trust usually tells us something profound like "you guys need to spend more time reading the job ticket", even though it's a two sided 12x16 bottomless pit of an envelope that's printed on both sides with more data than a real estate contract, and stuffed with 20 pages of quotes and post-it notes with hidden messages scribbled in invisible ink. My personal favorite was when the owner suggested that we keep a journal next to our computer so we could document every detail of our activity for each job... with a pencil. AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

    Fortunately, there is a silver lining to our plight. I discovered that the life expectancy of prepress operators is about 8 years less than the national average due to stress, toxic chemicals and exposure to sales people.
    Last edited by LoweringTheBar; 08-13-2008 at 11:14 AM.

  10. #10
    AutyGraph is offline Junior Member
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    Default I'm with you

    I did want to add to this discussion that we feel your pain too.

    We create Epsons for colour and double sided HPs for folded mockups, yet every day someone in our organization says - just match the sample we don't need Epsons. The problem is that inks change, stocks change, presses change, yet for some reason we feel compelled to save a couple of dollars by not making an Epson.

    I've tried to explain to pretty much everyone that colour matching is best done in prepress and not on press, yet almost every day someone complains that they had trouble getting colour on press because the customer didn't want to actually match the proof. They bring in a sample from who knows where and says this is what we want.

    I'm not sure what it will take to get customers and sales staff to actually take the time to look at proofs - check the colour and then just let us print to that. With constant price competition and ridiculous turnarounds, I guess it's too much to ask. We seem to find the time to print it again.

    Just my 2 cents


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