An experiment in Lean?

[Erik Nikkanen]

This would be for any small printer in the Toronto area.

An interesting experiment in Lean would be to do some testing of the Ink Transfer Blade (ITB) concept on a unit of one of your small presses.

The ITB eliminates the density variation of ink/water balance by decoupling the interaction of ink feed and water feed. Basically this means that even if one changes the water setting, the density will not change. Can not be washed out. The density will also not change if the press speed changes or the roller train temperature changes.

I'll build you a unit at my cost for you to test as long as you make the test results public. If there are any curious printers in Toronto, who are keen on seeing how the process can be changed, you can contact me at nikkanen@globalserve.net .

Erik

[mkeif]

Erik,

Have you considered talking w/ Ryerson University about doing some testing? They may not be interested in doing it for free but it wouldn't hurt to ask. I'm sure if they did the testing they would be delighted to publish the results.

Malcolm

[Erik Nikkanen]

Erik,

Have you considered talking w/ Ryerson University about doing some testing? They may not be interested in doing it for free but it wouldn't hurt to ask. I'm sure if they did the testing they would be delighted to publish the results.

Malcolm

The whole point of testing the ITB and making the results public is to demonstrate the science behind the concept of having a forced ink feed to the industry. It is not to demonstrate it to me since I know what it already does.

A positive or forced ink feed decouples the ink and water relationship with respect to density control. The ITB is not a product. It potentially can be but it is aimed mainly at press manufacturers. The ITB is just one way to solve this problem which has been around for over a hundred years in the industry. It is also a very low cost way to solve it.

I have tried to interest Ryerson for almost ten years, in the science of this problem. Last year I even talked with them but they showed not interest. I have found this very common that graphic arts educational institutions are not very interested in new knowledge. One would think that they would be interested in understanding the fundamental issues of the process but it turns out they tend to be more interested in the existing technologies than science.

This is unfortunate because Ryerson would have been ideal. But I am hoping that a small printer in Toronto will be interested and if they are they could have an opportunity to get the technology developed for them at cost, if they liked the results. The important thing is to get the knowledge public, that the ink/water balancing problem is solvable. This is not a chemical process. Consistency and then predictability is possible. This is certainly a Lean goal.

[Green Printer]

Erik

I differ on the chemical. It always has been and always will be a combo issue of chemical and mechanical. In offset litho the two issues of mechanics and chemistry are inseparable.
With bad chemistry the best mechanics cannot work properly and vise versa with bad mechanics the chemistry cannot work as intended.

[Erik Nikkanen]

Erik

I differ on the chemical. It always has been and always will be a combo issue of chemical and mechanical. In offset litho the two issues of mechanics and chemistry are inseparable.
With bad chemistry the best mechanics cannot work properly and vise versa with bad mechanics the chemistry cannot work as intended.

It is not a chemical process because there are basically no chemical reactions. Chemicals are used, that is true but chemicals or materials are used in many processes but that does not define them as chemical processes.

The chemicals provide physical properties that are needed but one could say that for many physical processes. By calling it a chemical process is misleading and has made people think that the solution to the density control problem is somehow related to the chemicals. In offset, the basic use for fount solution in combination with ink and plate is to separate the image from the non image areas. That is basically all it is used for. The density control problem is strickly mechanical and is based on the mass transport of ink in the roller train which is very much affected by the type of ink feed on the press. They ARE separate issues.

Even in waterless offset, there are physical properties related to the ink, image and non image surface of the plate that provide the ability to ink only the image area. Again, no chemical reactions. With waterless offset there are still density variations even without fountain solution. These variation are related to the mechanical design of the press with respect to how it feeds and managed ink in the roller train.

I would totally agree, that if some of these components, mechanical or chemical are not working properly, there will be problems but that is true about any process. What I am interested in is looking at the process with the assumption of everything is working as they were desgned to work. Then the question becomes, how does the design of the technology affect performance and how can one change the design to improve performance.

[Erik Nikkanen]

Erik

I differ on the chemical. It always has been and always will be a combo issue of chemical and mechanical. In offset litho the two issues of mechanics and chemistry are inseparable.
.

Green Printer, To make a much shorter answer.

The reason why I would like to have a local printer do the tests is so that it can be shown publicly that things don't work quite as printers, such as yourself, thought they did. Lots of talk does not work as well as a demonstration.

[Michael Josefowicz]

Erik-

Might you consider doing a test in Rhode Island? To be clear, I'm not the person who can say yes. But there is a potentially interesting situation. One of the design schools in RI has recently eliminated it's graphic design program. The reason, as I understand it, was that the cost of equipment is more than the school can afford.

So, my thought is to find a local printer who is willing to exchange some appropriate downtime to meet the need for an equipment rich environment for graphic designers. My thought is that perhaps the sweetener of ITB might get the appropriate people closer to a Yes.

[mattf]

Erik-

Might you consider doing a test in Rhode Island? To be clear, I'm not the person who can say yes. But there is a potentially interesting situation. One of the design schools in RI has recently eliminated it's graphic design program. The reason, as I understand it, was that the cost of equipment is more than the school can afford.

So, my thought is to find a local printer who is willing to exchange some appropriate downtime to meet the need for an equipment rich environment for graphic designers. My thought is that perhaps the sweetener of ITB might get the appropriate people closer to a Yes.

The Print CEO Blog - Printing Industry News - Rhode Island College Drops Graphic Communication Concentration

RI college is dropping their Graphic Communications major. I think it has to do with the economy and to use the resources of the major in other areas. One of the teachers is Dr. Collins, and he has always had support from local printers. Since he is retiring, this is really about the top people in the college and what they think is best for the whole college, and at this moment they think the major isn't worth it. Also someone had commented about how they don't know how to manage his job, so they just will forget about it and that will be that.

Sad story about the major though :/

[Michael Josefowicz]

Thanks for the info.

From my 7 years of experience teaching at a prestigious NYC design college, my bet is that you have hit the nail on the head when you say that no one knows how to replace the person who has been running the program. My bet that the "no money for equipment" is probably true, but doesn't really explain why the decision was made.

So...suppose they could be shown how to use seasoned Baby Boomers with deep experience in the field and a program of distance learning and some regular face to face meetings?

Do you think anyone might give this approach hearing to revitalize the program?

[mattf]

Thanks for the info.

From my 7 years of experience teaching at a prestigious NYC design college, my bet is that you have hit the nail on the head when you say that no one knows how to replace the person who has been running the program. My bet that the "no money for equipment" is probably true, but doesn't really explain why the decision was made.

So...suppose they could be shown how to use seasoned Baby Boomers with deep experience in the field and a program of distance learning and some regular face to face meetings?

Do you think anyone might give this approach hearing to revitalize the program?

Again, if we are continuing the discussion concerning Erik's idea about this experiment I believe this could be achieved. Problem is there needs to be someone in the college who can manage it. You need someone within the college to communicate with all the local printers and on top of that with Erik on how to make all this work. Whether there is someone in the local area who can do this is an issue, and whether Erik can head off to the small state of "Rho Disland!" would be some things to discuss. Sadly, I have been a resident of this small state in the city of Warwick for about 3 months now! Nice to hear some people who are in the region.