In the next 6 months I need to purchase an 8-Colour Perfector press. My preferences are either a KBA Rapida 106, Komori Lithrone or Heidelberg SpeedMaster.
I need to put them through a head to head comparison test. I currently have all three manufacturers presses on our factory floor but they are the older machines.
Some of the criteria that I would like to compare them are:
[list=1][*]make ready times[*]speed of press in perfecting[*]cost of jacket required for impression and transfer cyclinder[*]cost of consumables
damper motor
register motor
Communication PLC
replacment computer
cost of callout labour charges during working hours and after hours
These are just some of the items I'm considering.
How would one suggest that I do a head to head comparison, or does one have any suggestions in purchasing decision analysis.
Or if not, can users of the above mentioned presses commented on components/spare parts that are fairly regularly replaced or have to be reset/readjusted by a trained engineer often.
For example, it seems that I need to fly down a KBA engineer to reset grippers every 9-12 months.
In general my employer has been a long term customer of Heidelberg. The make solid machines that run a very long time (ex still running windmill presses for special applications). Their Speedmaster line has been around for many years and has constantly been improved year after year. Recently most of their new advancement have been put into the XL line such as inline spectrophotometer for color management which is not intended to be offered on the SM line. Seeing that they now offer the XL as a perfector this may be something to consider.
On occasion we have placed KBA presses for their ability to handle thick substrates mainly for packaging type applications. Our experience has been that some of the 3rd party accessories KBA uses have not been the most reliable. In the US they have experienced some employee turnover rumored to be around dissatisfied customers receiving service that was not meeting their expectations resulting in some lost sales opportunities.
We have recently evaluated Komori and been impressed with some of their automation and focus on reducing make ready time. If you’re doing short run work while other manufacturers may have the ability to run faster at the end of the day you may be able to get more work out do to efficiencies in make ready automation. If you plan on doing 95-100% perfecting work their stacked press may also be of some interest. Komori has been building a reputation for making an extremely reliable press that does not break down and when something does happen parts are priced reasonably. It is also very rare for a Komori to require the grippers to be replaced because of their design.
I have heard Heidelberg continues to be the #1 selling sheetfed offset in the USA but Komori has been catching up over the years while man roland is a distant 3rd followed by KBA. The best advice I can give is to test some actual jobs on each press and see what one performs the best for your market and workload.
If I were you Ravesh I would seriously consider Manroland. Why don't you call them and schedule a demonstration. You can send a job to them ftp and go and see them print it from scratch, from platemaking to printing.
I am assuming that you are in N. America.
If, as one of the other contributors sugests you don't want them to prestage anything, call them anyway.
You have nothing to lose and everything to gain, and, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the technology.
Last edited by jbeniston; 11-18-2008 at 01:46 PM.
Reason: add further text
If you are going to test in a Demo room do not supply the file prior to the test. Make them react as you would in a production environment. Heidelberg had some problems on their SM with the file I supplied.
Walk in with the disk.
Watch the adjustments they make, and how the machine reacts. Given enough time the big 3 can play tricks in the Demo room.
Once you have narrowed your press selection have them take you to the field. Watch other printers run the machine. Some will struggle some will not.
the process that we recently used to test a number of press manufacturers (Heidelberg, KBA, Komori, ManRoland) is as follows:
We selected 5 standard production jobs - 2 sections each, 4x4colour jobs, 1x5colour job. All were on different substrates - satin, gloss and recycled stock, SRa1 to B1 sheet size - which we supplied.
Each vendor was given 1 job in advance, the balance on the day of the test.
The idea was to replicate, as close as possible, a standard production environment to include set-up, make-readies and wash-ups.
The clock started ticking when the first job went on press, it stopped when the final sheet came off press for the final job.
Each vendor was left to decide on colour, all we did was observe and measure (makeready time, number of sheets before good copy, waste, press settings, alchol & fount, etc.).
The results were interesting and varied - from mind-blowing to mind-numbing!!
Take a serious look at the Komori Super Perfector. It runs fast and prints great.
It can be had with any amount of automation you wish for directly from Komori. It can also be upgraded using OEM systems such as LithoTel's ColorLinx scanning and ink key presetting products. These systems are direct plugins to the press and use the same X-Rite scanner that is normally supplied by Komori.
The durability, service and tech support for the press are beyond question.
As far as head to testing goes. Provide each manufacturer with a test file and a live job file. Have them submit samples and have them "blind evaluated" independently. It's worth the cost.
If you are seriously looking for an independent perspective stay away from press manufacture’s salesman. Press trials are staged and most press manufacturers provide stunning showroom presentations.
Raise your questions to technical people and end users such as experienced press operators and demonstrators. Sometimes a good advise from an educated and experienced press operator can be far more interesting and practical to support your future decisions.
The universal criteria include the following areas:
1- Productivity: make/ready times and press speeds; these are important items considering the industry trends of shorter press runs. The press must equipped with a reliable fully automated pate changer, (hand free plate changer). The dampening system must be fast reacting and provide stability in long runs.
2- Quality control: integrated process control; if you are concern to keep in-house quality standard you must consider presses equipped with integrated systems that support easy to use quality control scanners.
3- Integration: information workflow; the press information workflow software management must support all the needs for a smooth operation such as: ink profiles, sheet formats, etc.
4- Maintenance: consumables; jackets, coaters, rollers, preventive maintenance costs, etc.
Everyone willing to move forward will experience during the transition endless challenges. From the operation stand point, the operators training is the key for a painless transition.
Ravesh, we just finished going through this exact exercise but for an 8 color 40" press not a perfector. We went to the big 4 manufacturers MAN, Komori, KBA and Heidelberg XL105. For our evaluation we took with us a Disc with a couple of jobs on it and had them make the plates right before the press trial, that way they couldnt pre stage everything like they do at a print show. The print forms consisted of everything from carton stock to lightweight paper and took us most of the day with each manufacturer. Next we asked for references of current users who we could visit and then we spoke to the Press Operators themselves as they live with these presses every day.
Final result was, if you are a Carton Printer and want a high tech work horse press KBA came out on top and was the most expensive. If you were looking for state of the art commecial press then Heidelberg came out on top, If yo uare loking for best value for money to do both carton and commercial then you cant do ant better than a Komori.
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