Carbonless Paper

TheMarine · #1 (**permalink**) 07-01-2009, 10:35 AM

Anybody know where to get high quality Carbonless paper for Offset and Digital Presses? To further elaborate on the question, what I would like to know is:

What do you look for in a carbonless product?
What do you value about the quality of the current sheets being used?
What do you look for as far as service from the sources used for that stock (knowledge, reliability, etc.)?
What can be improved?
What would make you happy?

akiyama_king · #2 (**permalink**) 07-02-2009, 02:11 AM

well, according to posts you have mad on other forums i assume you think you can supply high qualuity carbonless

TheMarine · #3 (**permalink**) 07-02-2009, 08:14 AM

I don't make statements on information that isn't factual, or proven. I was jut curious to know if there were any other opinions from my colleagues in the Print Industry.

For the record, other brands are fantastic. They have great names that have hige businesses built on them. However, were the mass quantities are being produced- quality is being over looked. As a printer- why save money on a price and then spend more money running, dealing, and printing those sheets. Paper is not paper. Our carbonless runs at least 25% faster, saving you valuable time. Here is something to ponder-

40 hours worked per week X 52 weeks= 2,080 hours
2,080 hours X .25 (25% better runability)= 520 hours
Industry average to run a press is $50 (runpress, pay operator, electric, all costs associated wiht jobs)
$50 X 520= $26,000 Annual savings (conservatively)

So is the price you are trying to save upfront, on foregin sheets or mass produced sheets that are proven to be not as efficient, is it worth it to save $1 or $2 per thousand just to Spend $20,000 or more annually. Wouldn't that money be better in your pockets.

Now let's consider that extra time you now have- how many jobs can be produced in that time? How much extra profit could you generate in that extra 520 hours? I bet that far exceeds any savings you are getting on price!

And lastly, let's consider waste. Industry average is 4-5% annually. Waste is wasted money. It's money you don't get back, but you earned it and spent it on the products. It's gone. Our sheets have proven to be approximately 1% or less. To that end, if you spend:

$100,000 per year on paper- $100,000 X .04 (4% waste)= $4,000 LOST (never to be returned)
but at 1% or less- $100,000 X .01 (1% waste)= $1,000 LOST
So you would be saving yourself approximately $3,000 in just waste.

(not to mention a higher quality product should and will increase the life of your inks, supplies, and equipment at least 5-10% annually [conservatively])

I am just trying to be conservative here. So other brands are fantastic and have great names. But a name WILL NOT put money in your pocket!

What if you work more hours on average? What if your current waste/spoilage is higher? What if your costs to opearate are higher? The percentages are all relative.

So the suppliers you pay commissions to- are they doing more for you OR are you actually doing more for them?

So of course I would like to help. But this forum is an open discussion on how we can all make things better, instead of whining about the economy (for the record- the print industry and the economy has not had an relevance to each other for years. just read Dr. Joe's economy and research articles- the proff is in the proverbial pudding). The question should be, what are YOU doing to better YOUR OWN economy. My economy is different than yours, yours is different from the person next door. MANifest your own destiny- life will NOT be handed to you on a silver platter (for at least 99.999% of at least)

Feedback is greatly appreciated.

Semper Fidelis,

The Marine

GazKL440 · #4 (**permalink**) 07-02-2009, 05:16 PM

Akiyama-King... surely your not suggesting people start threads so they can advertise their products!!!

I dont have a particular issue with this, these forums have to be paid for hence the advertisments!!

My view is that if someone advertising can find a product that makes my day on the presses easier, im happy to read thru what they have to say...i only dislike it when advertisers use a thread not to talk up their product but to bag out other's product....

As for NCR, i rarely have to use it, we have a small press division for that...but when i cut my teeth on GTO's we tried a few different ones and found that a good carbonless could make your day..... and a bad one ruin it pretty quickly. We tried a few and stuck with one called "Idem' which i think is still around... basically it ran like 80gsm bond, and on a press that will do me... i think the bindery liked it too but meh....(bad attitude yeah???)

RGPW17100 · #5 (**permalink**) 07-02-2009, 06:12 PM

Years ago we did tons of carbonless printing. With the cost of the carbonless most of our customers use offset. We do the same. We print two copies of the invoice or packing slip then keep the signed copy. NCR Superior was the best for offset.

akiyama_king · #6 (**permalink**) 07-03-2009, 11:34 AM

i dont have a problem with him advertising his product (its not my job to be bothered_ what annoys me is he didnt just come out and say it

User Name · #7 (**permalink**) 07-03-2009, 12:10 PM

Robbert Horn, James Mc Naughton and Antalis all sell carbonless paper as indeed do any paper merchant. I am sure you will fined a local supplier if you Google "paper merchants".

Trevor.
Printing and Graphic Design in Pembrokeshire.

GazKL440 · #8 (**permalink**) 07-04-2009, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akiyama_king

i dont have a problem with him advertising his product (its not my job to be bothered_ what annoys me is he didnt just come out and say it

yeah fair enough; was not having a shot at ya!!! No offence intended

understand where your coming from!

Jamsb42 · #9 (**permalink**) 07-05-2009, 05:43 PM

Hi Marine. i wanted to follow up on a previous post. I called your office and spoke with my my state rep Brad Thompson. I tried a half a case of your 2 part and half a case of your 3 part 8 1/2 x 11 offset carbonless. I was a little apprehensive about trying a different brand of carbonless being I'm a lifelong user of the NCR brand of carbonless. However when Brad went through your return policy I saw no reason not to give it a try. Also, the free freight didn't hurt either. To make a long story short I ran the paper and it was pretty impressive. On a very hot day in the shop I ran the paper and I didn't have any problems with curling or with jams. Needless to say I will be contacting Brad to place another order. I'm also going to try your Digital carbonless on my Xerox High Speed Copier.
I've got a question for you Marine. I've got a couple of buddies also in the print industry but in a different state, who I'd like to have try your paper. Do they contact you since you're the Senior Sales Executive?
Thanks for all your and Brads help. I really appreciate the quality of your customer service, which is something that seems to be missing with a lot of suppliers these days.

rbailleu · #10 (**permalink**) 07-05-2009, 06:13 PM

as long as the thread has been opened. we do all carbonless on the offset. I am down to using only nekoosa. we can't seem to make excel look good and black on the white sheet. always looks streaky and splochy. nekoosa works everytime. I am very happy with it. anybody else have issues with excel or other brands