Customers proofs

[ronson]

Hello everyone


Sometimes there is a small battle between pressman and the customer, customer says, that his proofs are absolutely OK, proofs are printed using correct profiles, everyting is calibrated and etc.

But lets say, that somehow press is printing everyting correctly, to the same standards (iso) what were used to create proofs, but the difference is so big, that there is no way those proofs could be right.

What would be easiest way or first thing to measure/check, that he could prove to customer that his proofs are incorrect, from pressmans point of view?
(pressman is alone with the customer, there is no special software and prepress cannot be reached)

Of course, quality is what the customer says is quality.

Regards
Ron

[MacTwidget]

We've been down this road too.

In the end we state that it is our policy that we will not guarantee matching customer supplied proofs.

In a quality shop, the internal proofs should come close to matching the capabilities of your press.

Color is such a subjective topic with too many variable to quantify. What is considered "calibrated" and "in tolerance" to one person can be extremely different to another.

We ran into this issue when we would receive supplied proofs from a local service bureau. Their "calibration" was to make as "pretty" of a proof as possible. Because that is what they were selling the customer. They couldn't (and shouldn't be expected to) accurately represent what will print on an offset press, let alone the differences in presses from shop to shop.

In our case, we tell the customer that we will output a proof. They can supply theirs for reference, but any discrepancies between their proof and our proof can be remedied, but at a cost and requiring a new proof, at a cost.

[gordo]

Hello everyone

Sometimes there is a small battle between pressman and the customer, customer says, that his proofs are absolutely OK, proofs are printed using correct profiles, everyting is calibrated and etc.

But lets say, that somehow press is printing everyting correctly, to the same standards (iso) what were used to create proofs, but the difference is so big, that there is no way those proofs could be right.

What would be easiest way or first thing to measure/check, that he could prove to customer that his proofs are incorrect, from pressmans point of view?
(pressman is alone with the customer, there is no special software and prepress cannot be reached)

Of course, quality is what the customer says is quality.

Regards
Ron

This is not a question of what the customer says is quality. It is a question of the print manufacturing system.

Generally speaking, it is not the press operator's job to discuss this kind of issue with the customer. The press operator's job is to maintain the press in a stable, reliable, and consistent print condition. Instead it is the responsibility of prepress to validate incoming materials (like files and proofs). That basis, in turn, allows prepress to prepare shop proofs as well as to measure and validate the incoming files and proofs. Once the materials are accepted by prepress they are deemed correct and can enter press production.

If the press is not printing to the shop standard - then it is the press operator's responsibility, with the involvement of prepress, to return it to the shop standard.

best, gordo

[Bloodsaler]

Do you have your own inhouse proof~What`s the difference with the customer proof?

[ronson]

Yes, we have our inhouse proofs and they are pretty easily matchable to that waht press is printing.
But 50% of cases, customer tends to come to shop whith his own proofs or send them via DHL.
Often there are ΔE or lab values and measurable color samples on proofs, can pressman get some info on proofs by measuring them?

[Bloodsaler]

This situation in my country,we oftern through adjusting the profile color to match customer proof.You can`t sure which situation client get this proof,whether it`s standard or not,so you only can do is change the picture in photoshop~

[Werby]

Proofs are easily certifiable it they include the IdeAlliance bar or the FOGRA media wedge. If the customer is supplying them, not only should the proofs have the patches, they should have a sticker indicating that someone read the patches and that the proof is within tolerance for whatever spec they say it is. If they don't have the patches and the sticker, they are not valid proofs. The whole point of "certified proofing" is that no one has to take anyone's word for it: the patches are right there and can be measured by anyone.

As Gordo says, prepress should be checking the proofs, this is not something that the pressman should have to do. If the pressman doesn't have the software to certify proofs, then it is difficult to discredit a proof simply by reading a few patches. Perhaps if the pressman has an example of a certified proof and can visually compare the bars on that to the customer's proof, and there is an obvious visual difference, that might work...

[mjb]

If the customer supplies their own color proofs, we will output a few pages of color on each form and match it to the customers color. If color adjustment is needed we will discuss this with the customer on weather the customer adjusts their files to our color or if we adjust our plate curves to match their color on press.

Either way the point is to identify the problem BEFORE making metal proofs.

[Lukas Engqvist]

If we get customer proofs we print our own proof, if the two match the print will also. If not then we suspect the customer proof, if they have a strip that can be measured and action taken from there (which may mean contacting the customer to ask them to see our proof which is what we can deliver. Some times it is the transport that spoils the proof, or the customers system was a too long since it was calibrated.) The customer needs to know that there is a difference and therefore a risk to go on ahead…*if we decide to go ahead because the customer does not have time or is not willing to pay, we need a disclaimer.