Please help! Wide format printer advise needed.

[starprintingltd]

We are looking to buy a wide format printer and enter the market. Currently litho operation only and think it is best to enter the market now
We have never owned one before and need your advise.
We are confused firstly with dye, pigment ink and so on and so on. What does that mean?
We want a printer that can print onto outdoor stuff i.e. vinyl sheet paper, canvas etc. Banner material would be a bonus but not a priority. Also to print indoor posters etc..
We have a low budget of £2000.
Can you please answer our questions and suggest some printers.

Your help is much appreciated. Thanks

[Al Ferrari]

Raise these questions with your prepress consumables supplier with whom you already have a relationship.

[starprintingltd]

We have done, but no help there. We use Rosefox over in Preston (UK)
The other thing is we are not looking to buy new - they will suggest modern new machines.
We are after a decent used machine.

Awaiting your advice

[Ian Mackenzie]

First, if you do not know the difference between dye and pigment, you should probably not get into the WF business...;-)

Second, establish a relationship with a "service bureau" or sign shop that has "to the trade" pricing and send out your work until you can justify your own kit.

Third, your (small) budget covers only the printer. You will also need:

1. RIP
2. Finishing, mounting, cutting
3. Laminating
4. Grommets, etc.

If all of ths sounds like too much for you, then go back to the second suggestion. Send your work out, make 25% GP on jobs with no capital outlay and build your business.

[jotterpinky]

If you want durable outdoor signage your budget is not near big enough.

There are basically two types of wide format machines.
1. Aqueous based inkjets printers
2. Solvent based printers

Aqueous printers use a water based ink that needs a special coating on the paper to bond correctly. You can also print on a basic uncoated sheet of bond paper but coated papers designed for inkjet work the best. These type of printers are often used for temporary posters, indoor banners, proofing devices, and larger photo prints. We currently use a Canon iPF8000 that generates fantastic quality prints...color is almost always dead on too. There are a number of other brands as well that work great, Epson being a good one as well. Keep in mind that while these are not necessarily designed to produce outdoor signage we have been successful using scrim banner material designed for aqueous inks (tyvek works well too) and for outdoor posters that we always laminate. There are a large number of media options, many of which claim to be "water-resistant" which is true but these will generally only look good for a several months outdoors. Since they use specially coated papers to obtain the best results the media is much more expensive than that used for Solvent printers and is easy to scuff requiring either hot film laminate or liquid laminate such as "clearshield". They are also much less expensive than Solvent printers and you might be able to get something very nice if you compromise on the width of the printer. Depending on media type these will be virtually dry coming off the printer and can be finished almost immediately. Based on your budget this is probably the type of machine to get. You will be limited to what you can produce that will be able to go outdoors for any length of time.

The solvent printers produce very durable scratch resistant signage that typically used for outdoor applications such as banners, vehicle graphics etc. They print on uncoated (don't have a special coating for the ink to adhere to) materials and essentially "etch" the surface of the material to bond securely to the substrate. For a decent size machine (54" width) you are in the neighborhood of $20000 (USD) for an entry level machine (look for brands such as Mimaki, Mutoh, Epson (GS6000 only), Roland). For the best durability outdoors you will also need a cold laminator to apply laminate to the prints ($10,000) Seal, GBC, Royal Sovereign make machines that work well for this type of market. If you want to get in the vehicle graphics market you will also need a "plotter" which cuts vinyl and other substrates in custom patterns (such as cutting out some text). The media for this type of printer is generally less expensive. True solvent printers will also need to be ventilated since they out-gas harmful VOCs. There are a number of newer "Eco-Solvent" printers out now that release less harmful VOCs and work nearly as well as the Solvent inks. Prints off the printer will be slightly tacky to the touch but will feel dry after an hour...
we usually wait 5-6 hrs for them to out-gas before finishing and the manufacturer recommends a full 24 hours before laminating. Print quality is not nearly as good as prints on an aqueous printer. Our aqueous printer at 600 dpi print resolution produces photographic quality work that our customers cannot distinguish from a silver halide print. Even printing at 1440 dpi on our solvent printer produces prints that are good, great for outdoor and signage you will look at from more than a foot away but not near as nice.

As noted previously any printer you decide on needs to be paired with a RIP (either software or hardware) to get the best prints from the machine you choose. This allows you to use the correct profiles for the different media types you plan on printing. Without the right profile your print will look like crap as the printer will lay down too much or too little ink for the substrate.

[Ian Mackenzie]

If you want durable outdoor signage your budget is not near big enough.

There are basically two types of wide format machines.
1. Aqueous based inkjets printers
2. Solvent based printers

The solvent printer market in North America is drying up.
The third segment of this market is UV printers - both flatbed and roll to roll.

This is one of the fastest growing segments of the market.

[ozmatty]

I have a contact who could let you have a printer for free and all you need to do is buy media, ink and a service plan from him.

Please contact me at mat@graphicdisplayworld.com for further information.

Kind regards

Mat Thompson
Sales & Marketing Director
Graphic Display World

[matthewleung]

I have used HP Officejet 7000 Wide Format Printer for 2 years and have no problem. Its very helpful for my business.

[jbarrio5]

Go for a solvent based machine, much more versatile. Solvent ink can be used outdoors, so you can make signs. I would also go for a printer like the Roland Versacamn, because it can also counter cut, so you can print and cut in one pass.


Jose Barrios
ColorBox Printing

Full color printing, wide format prints, Business Cards, Banners & Design in Orlando Fl.

[Happyprinter]

We are currently in the same situation. Looking at 2 different inks. Either UV or Solvent. What are the pros and cons of each? We will mainly be using this machine to produce outside signs, vinyl labels, etc., as we already have a Canon 6400 Prograf and and Epson 7900 for indoor use.