ApogeeX 5 spotcolor - overprint emulation

[wfrank]

we have some problems with spotcolors e.g. I have a document with a user defined spotcolor
"myspot" and have assigned an alternative CMYK color of (0,0,0,80) from the applicaiton

When i process this in the Apogee workflow and have it converted to Process color in the PDF Renderer,
the CMM converts this to a black that is composed of CMY but with K = 0

As I understand Agfa support I should not use convert since conversion means the use of CMM
and the settings of the alternative CMYK values are somehow ignored.
Instead I should keep myspot as spotcolor and map to black
But what if myspot is something like (50,0,0,80) ?? I set this as "press color values"
and what I get after the renderer is something that contains C, M!! and K

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I wonder whether this is new behavior in Apogee 5 or some of the EssentialHotfixes ?? And whether I never noticed it before ?

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Is there anyone out who can say me something about the Overprint emulation which is displayed when I have a PDF with a spotcolor and an overprint situation ??

Any hint is welcome.
TIA,
werner frank

 

[wfrank]

to be more accurate

to be more accurate

> But what if myspot is something like (50,0,0,80) ?? I set this as "press color values"
> and what I get after the renderer is something that contains C, M!! and K
(to be more accurate this special thing happened with the old ps renderer + PDFReady
with the pdf renderer (0,0,0,80) came out in black. (Again
this is more strange)

But I also had this situation in a different job where the
color was (0,0,0,61) with an overprint situation, pdf renderer
and the color was build in CMY only with overprint emulation.
Without emulation the spot color disappeared totally.


Currently settings honor the CM settings from the Application.

I think when I have a self-defined spotcolor with an CMYK value
attached the renderer should take this value -- since theres no other
information and should not run it through an CM process creating
a new color separation.


it´s strange
werner frank

 

[oxburger]

How are your "Color Definitions" set up in the parameter set of your renderer? We have ours set up as "Search books first, use application values if not found" Thus, since "myspot" is not in any Pantone book, the renderer will then use the application values of (0,0,0,80) or whatever mix you have set up in the offending color.

 

[wfrank]

application values first

application values first

How are your "Color Definitions" set up in the parameter set of your renderer? We have ours set up as "Search books first, use application values if not found" Thus, since "myspot" is not in any Pantone book, the renderer will then use the application values of (0,0,0,80) or whatever mix you have set up in the offending color.

we have set it up the other way: "application values first then color books lookup"

werner

 

[oxburger]

That can be dangerous. I'd set it up for the opposite for the following reason:

Say someone creates a job using Pantone 300 CV (which the actual Pantone CMYK breakdown is C100 M44 Y0 K0) which they have set up as a spot, but which you are letting the renderer convert.

But say they have taken 20% of the Cyan out of their swatch so that it will print to their liking on their color laser. They have now supplied you a Spot color within the file for Pantone 300 CV which is built C80 M44 Y0 K0.

When you go to rip the file, your renderer is going to look up the application value for Pantone 300 CV that the client has switched to C80 M44 Y0 K0 and will output this way instead of the correct values of C100 M44 Y0 K0.

Just a thought. Unless you want to spend your days checking to make sure that every spot color that you rip is the correct CMYK value.

 

[oxburger]

What exactly is the scenario you are having? Is it an InDesign file that's picking up the "myspot" from a placed graphic and you are changing the values of the "myspot" color in InDesign? If so, it won't change the placed graphics value. It will still separate according to the graphic's mix and not the InDesign mix.

 

[wfrank]

for the topic application values first, color books later or vice versa.

my thoughts were:
Whenever a designer/producer uses a spot color e.g. a
Pantone xxx he wants this color. If he´s not satisfied with
this he will use another one.
When he prints it or looks at it at his screen and changes
the color thats hm strange.
So he wants less cyan....
When it is printed with process colors and I use the
modified values -- theres a chance that I come nearer
to his/her intention.

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one of my problems/questions is:
I have a pdf file with logo-object in the background
of the page -- like a watermark
Its assigned a selfdefined spotcolor which can not
be looked up in any color book. The assigned
CMYK values is (0, 0 ,0, 80) I convert it to process colors
and on the plates its something like (60,60,60,0)
What I understand from Agfa is that the conversion
is based on the CM ...
therefore it will be reseparated.

that sound not good for me -- either I misunderstood
something or ... no. I think when I
run a PDF with a spotcolor whose CMYK alternative
value is e.g. (60,0,0,50) these values should be used
and not be transformed or color managed ....


werner

 

[oxburger]

I think the only way around the problem is to define "myspot" as 0, 0, 0, 80 in the renderer under the "separate" section. Select the color, unclick the "automatic" next to "Press color values" and manually enter in your values. As to Agfa's explanation, I agree with you, it makes no sense. If a color is showing up as a mix of 0,0,0,80 it should print as such and not redefine the mix.