Xerox, Canon and Konica

[alvin_cgi]

Hi all,

I am planning to start a small to mid size copy/print center, I am new to this but do have graphic design background, so operating printer, shouldn't be a issue, but much technical knowledge, need a reliable machine.

So... To start from home or to retail shop? I got advices that more customers are dealing through web and email, walk in customer are not that importance anymore? I thought retail are more convincing than home base...

I would like to do bis card, booklet, flyer, brochure, VDP, photo album and etc, I mean more specialized products.

Have spoke to Xerox, Konica and Canon, now preparing print samples to test, wondering what to ask and need attention, (i.e. registration, colour consistency and etc) instead of just nice printing samples(they always print out nice samples from show room don't they!).
I will lease the second hand machine to start. Here are options I have:

1) Konica
KM C500
The cheapest one to lease, not much info on this one, does 600dpi... (does dpi really matter?), The sale told me the c5501 is another choice, (3x more expansive) better quality and faster, good quality on textured paper, c500 can also do it but little less quality.
I see people are going to 6501, and others sales told me that c500 is obsolete now, cost to print (click charges) are highest compared to Xerox and Canon.

2) Canon
Image Press C1
Great print quality but old and very slow, a bit more expansive than KM C500. Cost to print in between Xerox and KM.
The sale introduce a new IR ADV C9000 Pro, nice print quality and fast speed, lease price is 3x more than C1. (I been told that canon have huge problem print on textured paper).

3)Xerox
DocuColor 5065 II
2400 dpi, fast speed, good quality print(not sure print on textured paper), almost compare to 700. Old machine, lease price is same as C1... cost to print are cheapest among them all, not much information on this model, they told me this is old technology but they are still selling this on market.

So any of you have experiences with those machine please share me some thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thanks all

 

[JayDA]

I can give you plenty of reasons why you DON'T want a Konica C-500, I had four of them at one point...feel free to pm me.

 

[tppsg]

What type of business are you targeting mainly? B/W or Color? If it is color, forget about the KM, I own a KM 451. It is only good enough for document printing on woodfree paper. I am quite sure I will break the machine if I run a few thousand pieces of artcard through it.

What are type of jobs are you expecting? If your potential customers are going print 1 to a few copies of their files, the printing speed of the copier wouldn't matter much. More time would be spent RIPing rather than printing. Do take a look at the Docucolor 1256 as well in this case. It is a 12ppm machine that offers printouts with great IQ.

 

[UberTech]

I have 3 tips for you.

1. Don't buy a c500.
2. Don't buy a c500.
3. Don't buy a c500.

 

[Mark H]

I would like to do bis card, booklet, flyer, brochure, VDP, photo album and etc, I mean more specialized products.

This is going to sound horribly negative, but I create and grow businesses for a living, and there's lots to think about before you make this leap...

Unless you have access to a very large base of repeat walk-in customers just waiting on you to acquire a printer and open a shop you're never going to be able to cover your costs in opening a retail storefront. Not with your target market and this economy. The numbers just don't work.

Business cards, letterhead, envelopes, fliers, and brochures are all commodity items now. Price is king and the online retailers will kill you on cost. Unless you have a niche market I would stay away from this segment.

Do you even know what your bindery needs might be for doing "photo albums and etc"? Have you figured those costs into the equation?

As for VDP, there's software investments to make on top of the machine itself. You need to understand who your market is and what they want done.

And don't forget substrate and ink selection - just as critical as picking the right machine.

And since I mentioned the machine, remember that you need to be able to live with whatever you acquire for the life of the lease/machine. Chances are, if you buy in at the bottom end of the equipment list you will end up regretting it 18 months later.

Finally money. If you don't have enough money to do everything you need and still live for six-months with NO INCOME from the business then you shouldn't do it. At least not without an additional backer. This is no joke. The used equipment ads and plush with equipment from people like you who had a great idea, but were under funded.

Mark H

 

[alvin_cgi]

Thanks all for your input, really appreciated.

Hi Mark,

You did sound negative, but I guess you are right, I am still researching and doing business planning now, carefully.

Thanks

A

 

[Mark H]

You did sound negative, but I guess you are right, I am still researching and doing business planning now, carefully.

Alvin,

Have you approached any of the print distributors in your area yet? They would have a feeling for how saturated your local market is and be able to point you in the direction of niche openings (at least from their perspective). Also, if they're looking for order fulfillers, they can give you price points and volume; you could use these to offset or cover the lease cost of the equipment. They would also be important trade references when you go to lease your machine(s).

I would also suggest you approach the trade printers in your area; they may be in need of your skill set on a T&M basis, have used equipment to sell/rent out, and depending on their location may be willing to lease you space in trade. Never hurts to ask.

Mark H

 

[jotterpinky]

I would scrap your current choices and at least go with a Xerox Docucolor 242,252,260

 

[alvin_cgi]

Sorry for late reply and thanks for your advices.

Alvin,

Have you approached any of the print distributors in your area yet? They would have a feeling for how saturated your local market is and be able to point you in the direction of niche openings (at least from their perspective). Also, if they're looking for order fulfillers, they can give you price points and volume; you could use these to offset or cover the lease cost of the equipment. They would also be important trade references when you go to lease your machine(s).

I would also suggest you approach the trade printers in your area; they may be in need of your skill set on a T&M basis, have used equipment to sell/rent out, and depending on their location may be willing to lease you space in trade. Never hurts to ask.

Mark H

 

[alvin_cgi]

Thank you, will check out those models.

I would scrap your current choices and at least go with a Xerox Docucolor 242,252,260

 

[alvin_cgi]

Hi all, an updates...

I have tested the Canon machines IR C9065 and C1, so far I found that 9065 is much better result than C1, the back, colour are far smoother than C1... of cause the rental cost more!! But textured papers are very bad and poor on 9065 (not sure on C1), we understand that may be papers were too heavy cause we didn't have lighter stock, so 300+ gsm stock were used, but I have already been told Canon has problem print on texture paper, any of you have that experience on texture paper?
I will be testing Xerox machine soon, so will see the result.
I have asked the sale re 252/260 compare to 5065 II, they told me both models are similar spec, result and only 260 are higher cost on click/rental to run? No idea...


Thanks

 

[natty]

Maybe you should hook up with someone in your area who has an indigo and is prepared to offer you good pricing...

The world of digital print on the sort of boxes you are looking at is full of comprimises... comprimises on quality, on stocks you can run, on what you can print sucessfully...

I know most graphic designers always want to push the boundaries... you want fancy stocks... you want to print big areas of halftone perfectly... you want perfect colour matching... you want to be able to emboss and UV varnish with perfect accuracy...

Sorry to say but none of these devices are going to do this and you will have to drop your expectations dramatically most probably and drop those of your clients... At the end of the day are you prepared to do that ???

Or, as i said you can use someones indigo and have far less headaches... sure it will cost you more but if your clients are happy and you are not constantly fighting the machines to get the quality you want then you can focus on designing and selling...

Not saying you shouldn't do it but just be aware you will be restricted on the quality of the final product if you are used to a lot of fancy things as most designers that i know and work with want to do...

 

[Craig]

I agree with natty 100%.