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  • equipment upgrade, comparisons

    Hi, we're upgrading from our Canon iR C3220 with a Fiery-C2 RIP to a _______.

    That's where I need some input on both equipment and RIP. We do a lot of newsletter printing that has bleeds on all sides and has to be folded in half. This makes it a nightmare because of front/back registration and offline trimming. We're having to print them, trim, then fold them (backwards first, then the otherway to avoid heavy cracking on the outside crease. Yes, by hand. Smaller particle-size toner on samples from other machines has demonstrated much less cracking.)

    As far as RIPs, I've heard a lot of people who are satisfied with their Fiery's. I've just recently gotten involved with the print shop portion of our department and no one's been using any of the EFI software. Now I'm installing it and learning how to use it and such. Conceptually a lot of it makes sense. As far as what new RIP to get, most of the people that have told me "Creo is better, hands down" have been talking specifically about Konica Minolta equipment. As such, I don't know if the Creo is a significant improvement over Fiery on all machines or just more so on KM equipment. We haven't had problems with transparencies yet, which seems to be the Creo's strong point, but I suspect we might if given enough time. I've heard that the Creo does better with consistency, but shouldn't that depend on the printer? I mean if you calibrated a Fiery and a Creo correctly, then the color would only start changing due to something happening to the equipment which would happen regardless of the RIP, right?

    Large solid block consistency is probably more important than halftones for us. We also have to match several PMS colors routinely. We've narrowed our search down to these. Info from anyone who has experience with multiple machines, or a single machine with different RIPS, or any info that has some first-hand comparison experience would be greatly aprpeciated.

    Xerox DocuColor 7000AP/8000AP
    Standard Horizon ColorWorks 8000 Booklet Maker (inline bleed and face trimming plus folding!)

    Xerox DocuColor 6060
    Standard Horizon ColorWorks 2000/8000 Booklet Maker

    Xerox DocuColor 5000
    Standard Horizon ColorWorks 5000 Booklet Maker (inline bleed and face trimming plus folding!)

    Konica-Minolta bizhub PRO C500
    FS-606 Booklet Finisher, TU-109 Trimmer

    Konica-Minolta bizhub PRO C5500
    FS-607 Booklet Finisher with PK-512 Punch Kit and PI-502 Post Inserter

    Konica-Minolta bizhub PRO C6500
    FD-501 Folding Unit vs. FS-607 Booklet Finisher with PK-512 Punch Kit and PI-502 Post Inserter (are they mutually exclusive?)

    Canon imagePRESS C6000, C6000VP, C7000VP

  • #2
    Re: equipment upgrade, comparisons

    Justin,
    I own a Xerox DC8000AP with the EFI EX8000 front end and have had it for 5 months. I currently have about 360,000 on, 99% of which is 12x18. It will prints exceptional solids as long as you use the correct paper. I also own a Canon IR C3200 which is the predecessor to your 3220. The 8000AP and the 3220 are not even close, they don't even share the same gene pool!

    In my opinion you will get major toner cracking if you do not score before you fold on virtually every machine and it worsens on coated stock. If you think about the nature of the beast you will understand it a little better, ink is a liquid (almost) that absorbs (kinda) into the paper (very simplistic), toner is a dry powder that is fused on top of the paper in a layer so to speak. When you fold the sheet the "layer" of toner is less flexible than the paper and cracks, scoring will LESSEN not prevent cracking on toner printed sheets.

    After owning 7 Canon color machines and switching to Xerox, I can tell you the service and support is much better, far more responsive to your questions and much more professional. I can give you third hand information on the KM machines from another shop in town. They dislike it, they find that it requires 2 fuser units, one for 8.5x11 and one for the larger sheets. I guess if you run a lot of 8.5x11 they develop lines at the edge of the sheet. The front to back registration is not so great after it gets a little volume on it, and they experience color shifts from first sheet to last sheet on long runs.

    I do not have a booklet maker on my 8000AP because we handle that off line. Just make sure you have the volume for whatever decision is made, the 8000AP may be overkill if you aren't running 50,000 a month, but it will give you a lot of room to grow!

    Good Luck!

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