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  • Canon 7000

    We've had a 7000VP installed since last August. It replaced an original NexPress. The amount of downtime we're experiencing is unacceptable. Canon tells us that the engine is designed for a maximum of 300,000 8.5 x 11 sides per month. We exceed that. Have had ongoing problems with yellow unit resulting in downtime / bad quality. Our impressions between maintenance calls is between 20,000 and 30,000. Is our experience common?

    Edited by: Eric Delzer on Apr 17, 2008 5:58 PM

  • #2
    Re: Canon 7000

    that seems pretty low.
    - when you say "canon" do you mean the local dealer?

    Make sure you get Canon (manufacturer) service engineers involved.

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    • #3
      Re: Canon 7000

      Yep, thats about right. I have 2 of them and my experience is that we have an engineer in every day and on the occassions that the engineer does not come in we have toner drops on the sheet or fading on the edges of the sheet.

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      • #4
        Re: Canon 7000

        Trust me when I say this. I feel (or have felt) your pain!

        I went through this with a CLC4000 for 3 years, at one point I had 2 different regional service techs in from Chicago and they were worthless! I even had conversations with Janet Cain and her reply was get a 7000! After 12 years and 7 Canon machines I have turned away from the dark side and own a Xerox DC8000AP and will NEVER go back to Canon! The service and support is impeccable, just yesterday I called my tech. only to see how he was doing, since I have not seen him in a month! With Canon I had service in my shop on average 2 to 3 times a week!

        Good luck, I hope you have better results than I had with Canon, mine was almost turned over to our lawyers before if was finished.

        Edited by: Craig Hofer on Apr 23, 2008 6:32 AM

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        • #5
          Re: Canon 7000

          Eric:
          What made you choose a Cannon over the NexPress? I thought the samples that they were printing at Graph Expo looked pretty good, and the price was attractive. However, aside from selling more color copiers than anyone else, they were not in the pantheon of iGen, Indigo, and NexPress. It appears that the hardest element to determine, before purchase, is "up time" of the machine. Like the early Indigo's, perhaps they should sell you two of them. Another forum you might want to check out for digital is DICE. Maybe there's some relief there...
          John Lind
          Cranberry Township, PA
          724-776-4718

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          • #6
            Re: Canon 7000

            I purchased a Canon C7000 3 weeks ago, so far we've run approx 80k on it. We are getting our "training" on how to run it tomorrow and Thursday. So far it's been pretty good to us considering we've had no training. The service reps really need to be better trained, for the couple of problems we've had the come in scratch their heads and start making phone calls. They don't seem to have a clue about this machine.
            I must say I'm very impressed with the quality, our clients like it much more than the IGen3 output. The booklet maker is a great addition, too bad it doesn't have a 3 side trim only the lead edge. I'm also waiting on the release of the perfect binding attachment. I'm hoping we can push it past the 300k duty cycle without the issues I'm reading about...time will tell. So far I'm very happy with the printer...service will have to get up to snuff.

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            • #7
              Re: Canon 7000

              We've had our Canon 7000 for less than 7 months.

              In that time we've experienced and learned quite a bit about our machine:
              1. Getting consistent reliable color from one day to the next is impossible, regardless how many times you calibrate the machine. Having a machine operator who knows how to compensate for this is mandatory.
              2. The machines are extremely good and consistent.....when they want to be. We've had runs of +10,000 impressions with full coverage 12 x 18 4/4 where it never had a single problem.
              3. When it comes to solid colors the machines are incredible.....when they want to be.
              4. The machines need to be in a tightly controlled environment. Our shop is cold and dry one day, hot and humid the next. Trying to keep color consistency with these new machines requires consistent atmosphere.
              5. Due to poor sales our machines are not being used anywhere near capacity. That being said we see our techs at least twice a week. We do not consider this acceptable. Most of the time the machine is being called in for quality issues. My belief is that a majority of these problems are a result of the environment and a general lack of training of our operator. Until I see our machine in a stable environment with a trained operator, it's hard to say what the causes are for our problems.
              6. Setting the paper catalog settings correctly for your stocks is extremely important for quality.

              Eric, you are not alone in your frustrations.

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              • #8
                Re: Canon 7000

                we have installed last year machine is already done more than 300000 copies and its doing extremly well,we are very happy with the performance of the machine

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                • #9
                  Re: Canon 7000

                  I have been in the printing industry from past 25 years, the first color print engine I have used CLC series .my customer were very happy in quality of printing and color gamut handling, when market demands high end print engine,

                  I have tried many venders print engine. I had bitter experience in color consistence and color gamut handling, engine life deigns & break downs? I have lost my clientless

                  Now I had brought 5 “Canon C7000vp print engines. ” I had already printed 30 million impressions. I can compete with offset print industry and photo print industry in term of quality and color consistence. People are come back with confidence. That my profit.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Canon 7000

                    Something doesn't add up with that post! ?:| If I did the math correctly all 5 7000's would have to have run for over 1,400 hours to achieve that, if you only ran letter size paper simplexed. I may be wrong but the release date in the US was late September-ish. That would mean if all 5 machines were installed at the same time they would have to have run for 8 hours a day non-stop for 175 days to get that yield. I doubt ANY brand can run that long, everyone needs down time for PM's. Not to mention each Imagepress would have to run 857,142 impressions a month, almost 3 times the recommended monthly duty cycle.

                    Sounds like a lot to ask for a mid-volume machine, maybe an iGen or Nexpress could get those volumes, my DocuColor 8000AP is faster then the Imagepress, and I don't think it would come close to doing that volume on a month to month basis. If your numbers are correct, you can be thankful you have redundancy cause you'll be crashing one of them soon. If they are anything like my old CLC's when they hit the wall they were down for several day's at a time.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Canon 7000

                      I agree, the post from Yogeesha is questionable, maybe he means 3 million? Or maybe he's with Canon in India?
                      There is NO WAY you can exceed the 300,000 duty cycle to that degree and get away with it.
                      Please explain Yogeesha?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Canon 7000

                        We have had similar problems with our Canon 7000. It seems like the tech guy is here all the time. The quality is excellent, when the machine works though, and our customers are really impressed with the quality of the printing. Loading paper is easy, very few jamming problems have been encountered, but the main thing wrong with the machine is the consistency of the printing.

                        I go from one job, leave the room, get a new file from a customer, come back and the brightness of the ink is not there, or the thing is dropping toner on the page. Whatever the case is I feel like I am the one who is doing everything wrong, but I guess from reading these reviews it must be the machine.

                        It drives me nuts though because my boss and my sales reps look to me when the quality is not there and I tell them there is nothing more I can do besides call the tech guy to come in an have a look at the machine. At least I'm not alone out there on this topic.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Canon 7000

                          Are people having the same problems with the Kodak rebadge of the machine the M700. I was in Rochester the other day and they went on about how they re engineered the machine and added the ORC concepts from the NexPress. Just curious if it works better.

                          Ray

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                          • #14
                            Re: Canon 7000

                            From my understanding when I was looking at the 7000 and M700 they both have the same ORC's from the Canon factory. Canon at the time I was in the market said their ORC program would be introduced at a later date, once they had the internal details worked out. Kodak wanted it from the launch since it was working well in the NexPress line. If you open up a Canon machine there are several parts with color tabs on them that designate the ORC's (that's what they told me at the demo).

                            After reading the posts on this thread, I am glad I made the decision to go with the Xerox DC8000AP. The only issue I have had is the fuser ran out of oil because the sensor was clogged. I have gone from having a service tech. here 2 to 3 times a week, to once a month and most of those are PM or consumable parts that I can't change related.

                            If I were in the shoes of you folks who are having problems I'd skip over any middle man and go right to the top of the Canon food chain to Janet Cain. She emphatically told me that the support for this machine was going to be the best Canon had yet to offer, that this was a true production press that was to go head to head with Xerox and Kodak, and they would have the things in place to make sure it would happen.

                            Did you guys get a customer expectations document when you had an install? The copy they gave me states on page 36 reads that the C7000VP should deliver 95% uptime if you use Canon parts, the instillation environment meets their specs. service is provided by an authorized Canon dealer, you use Canon approved media and the MPV falls within the optimal performance range. It may be worth a shot to wave that in their face to see what they will do about it. But you'll probably get the same response they gave me, that it is printing within they specifications (which they will NOT share with you) and you basically have to live with it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Canon 7000

                              Extract from Craig's post:
                              "She emphatically told me that the support for this machine was going to be the best Canon had yet to offer, that this was a true production press that was to go head to head with Xerox and Kodak, and they would have the things in place to make sure it would happen."

                              ROFL!!!!!!!!

                              How about a certain Canon (professional photographic) product that's out there in big numbers that even the techs in Japan can't fix?

                              Don't fall for the corporate hubris - all 'copier' companies are the same when they try to take on commercial printing.

                              Comment

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