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  • #16
    Re: Canon 7000

    I agree with the guys above.. when it comes to graphic arts canon is notorious for bad service. We have 3 canon 3200 with signed service contract of 10 cents for colour, they came to us last may and canceled the service contract with 30 days notice. They increased our click charges of 16 cents. We tried to cancel the lease on the machine and they wouldn't do so, we ended up getting a Xerox 6060 and a Xerox 242 to do the work. The canons sit idle unplugged collecting dust until the lease is finished.

    They have done this to 3 other printers I know, there is a fineprint on the back of the agreement to void anything you sign on the front.

    The canon 7000 might be a good machine but watch out for the consequence of service and the after effects. Since we switched to Xerox it was the best thing we ever did, service is 300% better. The xerox is up an running in 4-5 hours, where in the canons would be down for 1-3 days depending on the problem.

    If you are going to buy a canon make sure you get a lawyer involved with the service agreement.

    ian

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    • #17
      Re: Canon 7000


      What can I add about the Canon 7000.................hummmmmm..............it is marketed as the Cadillac of Digital Color..............LMAO
      On the contrary, this machine has issues upon issues, actually we need service on a daily basis. Color changes from day to day regardless of how often you calibrate it. Banding is a big issue and the smoothing feature within the RIP is useless.It is amazing to me that the technicians knowledge of this machine is a joke. I think they went to 'Evelyn Wood Speed Training School". Everyday it is a different problem and they are calling the engineers and installing patches on the software or uninstalling the software they installed 2 days ago. The machine often gets stuck and the touch screen does not work nor does the fiery so we have to do a hard shutdown and cross our toes that we do not lose any information. Actually what happends is the job will duplicate itself on the fiery rip...........

      Today we are experiencing spots of magenta toner across the output. This happens at least once a week. So they will be in to replace the developer or something else and have the machine out of service for hours. The only time the machine is consistant is when IT IS NOT RUNNING..................:_|


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      • #18
        Re: Canon 7000

        All I can say is that my experience with Canon is that they are not willing to admit something is wrong, and less willing to fix it. When I still had my CLC4000 my click charge was .07 per click. My Salesman from Gordon Flesch told me that service alone was costing them .10 per click and that was before supplies were taken into account. It was costing them more than .03 per click just to keep it running!!!

        Just keep calling service and start calling everyone you can from Canon and get a lawyer! Cut out all the ads in the trade magazines and show them to your sales person and ask them why they are advertising lies!
        Tell Canon you want a new machine, and will keep throwing the CED in their face. Get CANON service engineers to your shop, not just your local guys, go over their head.

        I hate to say that life is much smoother on the Xerox side of the fence, but our DC8000AP has been 180 degrees of Canon. Xerox is night and day from Canon, this machine just keeps on running, less than 2 delta E in color shift. Service is once a month, instead of 3 times a week.

        It took me 2 years to get out of my lease with Canon, and that was through a buy-out and negotiated pay-off with Canon financial, it's tough and it sucks that you are made to be the bad guy, but don't let them get away with it. Send Canon all the stuff you can, including the information from the forums. Try to get a hold of other owners to complain as a group. Take your print samples to places like GraphExpo and throw them out for others to see and put them under the same crap you are with your customers. After all Canon isn't who your customers are complaining to... it's you!

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        • #19
          Re: Canon 7000

          We have now had our C7000 for almost a month. We've run just over 150,000 imps on it. Service has been called twice, not once for copy quality. We get consistent quality from page 1-xxx. I'm still very very happy with this digital color printer. We run everything from regular PDF's to postscript written by our programmers for fully color statements. We have gotten this volume without even trying to market this new product. Maybe the fact we have a graphic arts department helps, since they know color and the software. As for one comment on the smoothing feature...we find it gives amazing results.

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          • #20
            Re: Canon 7000

            The Canon C6000VP just won a very prestigious award:

            LAKE SUCCESS, N.Y., March 11, 2008 – Canon U.S.A., Inc., a leader in document imaging and office solutions, is proud to announce that the Canon imagePRESS C6000 digital press received the Best of Show Award in the Process Color Digital Printing Equipment category at this year's third annual ON DEMAND Best of Show Awards.


            Building upon the success of its revolutionary imagePRESS C7000VP digital press, at this year's ON DEMAND Expo, Canon expanded its line of digital presses with the introduction of the imagePRESS C6000. The new imagePRESS C6000 provides entry level production environments a level of quality, speed and versatility never before available at such an attractive price point, making this press the best value in the market.

            "We are proud to see the introduction of the imagePRESS C6000 already earning such prestigious industry recognition," said Tod Pike, senior vice president, Imaging Systems Group, Canon U.S.A., "The production printing space is a highly competitive field, but it's enjoyable when your products hit a home run the first time at bat."

            I would be very careful about many of the reliability claims made on this site - it appears that Xerox sales reps are trying to post fraudulent information since they are extremely intimidated by the Canon's ability to:

            Duplex 13 x 19.2" media on up to 15pt chrome coat
            Polymerized ink which doesn't require fuser oil like production Xerox equipment (it is near impossible to UV coat or laminate output off Xerox)
            The Canon uses a guide plate like a press to achieve registration front to back less than 1mm. Xerox is all over the place.

            Canon would not of won this award if they didn't have a superior product

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            • #21
              Re: Canon 7000

              JFortune said: "would be very careful about many of the reliability claims made on this
              site - it appears that Xerox sales reps are trying to post fraudulent
              information since they are extremely intimidated by the Canon's ability
              to:

              Duplex 13 x 19.2" media on up to 15pt chrome coat
              Polymerized ink which doesn't require fuser oil like production Xerox
              equipment (it is near impossible to UV coat or laminate output off
              Xerox)
              The Canon uses a guide plate like a press to achieve registration front to back less than 1mm. Xerox is all over the place.

              Canon would not of won this award if they didn't have a superior product"

              I am NOT a Xerox sales rep but a past Canon customer for the last 12 years starting with the CLC350, CLC700, CLC1180, 2 - CLC4000's, IRC3200, IR5000 to name a few.
              I HAVE had to deal with the lack of support from Canon USA all the way up to what sounds like your boss Janet Cain!
              I HAVE had a CLC4000 sitting idle for weeks because Canon couldn't make it run.
              I HAVE had Canon tell me that the only fix for the CLC4000 is the ImagePress 7000!
              I HAVE had Janet Cain look me in the face and tell me that the 7000 will NOT have the issues like others are posting here.
              I HAVE made the lease payments on equipment that was only productive 70% of the time.
              I HAVE had to explain to my customers why colors were not constant on the same page.
              I HAVE had to fight with Canon Financial to get a BACK a negotiated buy-out after they found out I signed with Xerox.

              Now as for your claims on the "fraudulent
              information" .
              It not nearly impossible to UV coat or Laminate output from Xerox equipment, it's done everyday.
              My DC8000AP will duplex 12.6 x 19.2 Media up to and including 300 GSM all day long (Faster than the ImagePress too).
              My DC8000AP (Which was introduced long before the ImagePress as the DC8000) uses a register guide plate to achieve +or- .5mm front to back registration (published in CED).

              I am sure the ImagePress will be a very fine piece of equipment once they get things worked out. I almost took their advice and replaced my CLC4000 with one. But I DID the 6 months of research and found that the grass was greener on the other side of the fence, at least for me!

              I don't think this post or any post should turn into a pi$$ing match, but one should be able to let others know what their experiences with machines or companies were!

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              • #22
                Re: Canon 7000

                Not to feed the trolls but,

                I am not a Xerox Shill as I only have a Doc 12 and a Konica Bizhub Pro 6500. I grew up in the CLC family. We ran the 500,700,1100, 1000 & 5000 at my previous job. My experience makes me believe both the good and bad that people are reporting. I can tell you that I had conversations with Canon on my 1000 & 5000 that went like this.

                Me: On my job for CompUsa the color shifted from red to orange.
                Tech: Yup
                Me: Are you going to fix it?
                Tech: this machine was built for speed not color accuracy. Maybe you should run this 5000K job on your 1100(Implied statement)
                This was a regular conversation for 3 years

                I think anyone who lived through the 1000 series in Color and the IR 600 with it's 3hole tearing issue has good reason to be wary of Canon's promises.

                That being said I have been burned by Xerox for other reasons and by KM for still others but, the most crippling experience to our business was with Canon Color so I tell everyone I know in the industry to be very cautious or avoid Canon altogether. That is an image problem that the 7000 doesn't seem to be fixing.

                Ray

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                • #23
                  Re: Canon 7000

                  The sad thing is, I liked the ImagePress 7000, I had to run several jobs on the demo unit at my dealers office when my CLC400 was down. It did a fine job on those runs, I just didn't feel comfortable with the promises Canon USA was making, they made it sound like everything was going to be sunshine and happy days with the 7000.

                  Every manufacture has problems, it's a fact of life, but some seem to handle them better than others.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Canon 7000

                    There is no way that this machine will reliably duplex 15pt. stock. The specification states 300gsm, and if you know paper you know that this usually equates to around 12pt. I'm sure that you can find a 300gsm stock that is 15pt thick somewhere, but that is extremely rare. The fact is, the machine is not designed to do this.

                    And to the user group: anyone with experience in this industry knows not to place a whole lot of stock in these "awards" like the ON DEMAND one. These are more often than not just PR gestures. The real test of any product is customer satisfaction.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Canon 7000

                      Eric, I'm confused by your thought process. I assume since you had a NexPress you were running quite a bit of volume, and I'm sure you knew the limitations of the Canon before you bought it. If you are exceeding the volume that the machine is designed to run, why are you dissatisfied?

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                      • #26
                        Re: Canon 7000

                        Just a quick update on our Canon C7000 experience. We've now had it for 1 1/2 months. We've run 340,000 imps on it, using every kind of stock imaginable. One challenge we've had is finding a card stock that we could image and fold without it cracking on the fold...yes we found the stock. We've had two service calls on the system. One was fixed with a firmware update, the system was locking up on clearing jams. The other was our fault, that resulted in paper dust or trimmings contaminating the printer. It had to be vacuumed clean, and we now vacuum all edges of the stock after cutting it and have had no further problems.

                        Our C7000 is installed in the same production room as our IBM 4000's and Kodak Digimasters, it is a very clean and climate controlled room, perhaps this has helped us avoid the issues others are experiencing? We've had no copy quality issues what so ever, page 1 is the same as page 10,000. We've run the full gambit of applications, from standard postcards to full variable dynamic financial statements. We used both PDF's and postscript as our input streams.

                        We are still learning how to deal with some of the input file we are given to image, but this is just learning how to deal with color management, so far there has been nothing that we have not been able to overcome.

                        I would still recommend this to anyone who asked.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Canon 7000

                          Dave,

                          You may want to look at a Morgana Creaser. We just picked up a used on and it does an excellent job of minimizing or eliminating cracking on pretty much every stock, with or against the grain. It also sets up a lot faster than any scorer that I have ever used and handles 9 creases in line. We are using it today on a press job that will run through our duplo. The paper is 80# Blue Linen Cover that has been Double Bumped with silver and is folding against the grain. on a run of 3000 we lost 2. The duplo will most likely eat 2 or 3 more. It really helps our waste.

                          Ray

                          FYI Not only do I not work for Morgana. I was adamantly opposed to this device until we tried the technology with our perfect binder. I then made a complete 180.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Canon 7000

                            You should also look at the Duplo DC-645 slitter/cutter/creaser. Great machine.

                            And no, I don't work for Duplo.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Canon 7000

                              What stock have you found that does not crack?????

                              Please share

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                              • #30
                                Re: Canon 7000

                                Sure I'll share, that's what this forum is all about. The cover stock we've discovered that doesn't crack is: Invercote Creato Cover 10.2 pt. and it's FSC as well.

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