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  • digital user
    started a topic Canon 7000

    Canon 7000

    We've had a 7000VP installed since last August. It replaced an original NexPress. The amount of downtime we're experiencing is unacceptable. Canon tells us that the engine is designed for a maximum of 300,000 8.5 x 11 sides per month. We exceed that. Have had ongoing problems with yellow unit resulting in downtime / bad quality. Our impressions between maintenance calls is between 20,000 and 30,000. Is our experience common?

    Edited by: Eric Delzer on Apr 17, 2008 5:58 PM

  • Damianc
    replied
    Let's hope that all the firmware upgrades are done and the glitches disappear. As I said, break-in issues. Going forward, I would bet that your call frequency diminishes considerably, and you get some comfortably long runs between visits. And, please do ask about the Customer Maintenance Program.

    Good luck, and thanks for going with Canon.

    Leave a comment:


  • SES
    replied
    Originally posted by Damianc View Post
    Are these 20,000 clicks between technician visits 8.5 x 11, or are they 11 x 17? What kind of stocks do you run? If all you run is 2cs 300gsm, you can expect more calls than if you ran, say, 220gsm all the time. You might consider, too, that you're just breaking in this machine. Our techs get many more clicks per call than this on average. If I recall correctly, Xerox's 7000/8000 machines claim 45,000 average (8.5 x 11) between technician visits in their Customer Expectation Document. Canon does not make that claim, but they do say 95% uptime, on average is guaranteed. You might want to see if your dealer can offer you the customer maintenance program, which allows you to replace certain parts indicated by the yellow screws. Most techs will offer to show operators how to replace certain simple parts, just to keep the machine up. I hope this helps. :
    We run 11x17 + 12x18 80# gloss for the most part. Occasionally, we'll run some 40-60# gloss in 11x17 and on an even rarer occasion we'll run regular 20# 11x17.

    Taking that into consideration I guess I should expect a higher frequency of service, but it still seems a bit much. I will say, however, that the issues we have are strange–the majority of them are software/firmware related with just one requiring a restart of the yellow developer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Damianc
    replied
    Prints Between Calls on Canon imagePRESS C7000VP

    Are these 20,000 clicks between technician visits 8.5 x 11, or are they 11 x 17? What kind of stocks do you run? If all you run is 2cs 300gsm, you can expect more calls than if you ran, say, 220gsm all the time. You might consider, too, that you're just breaking in this machine. Our techs get many more clicks per call than this on average. If I recall correctly, Xerox's 7000/8000 machines claim 45,000 average (8.5 x 11) between technician visits in their Customer Expectation Document. Canon does not make that claim, but they do say 95% uptime, on average is guaranteed. You might want to see if your dealer can offer you the customer maintenance program, which allows you to replace certain parts indicated by the yellow screws. Most techs will offer to show operators how to replace certain simple parts, just to keep the machine up. I hope this helps. :

    Leave a comment:


  • SES
    replied
    I keep a log in Excel of every issue that our C7000 has and at what number of clicks. We have 110,000 clicks so far (new machine) and we have, on average, an issue* every 20,000 clicks.
    * issue means anything that requires a technician to come out e.g. banding, communication errors, etc.

    I really like the machine and what it's capable of, but it's like having a whiny baby. We don't put that many clicks through it, but it continues to have minor problems here and there even though we do the regular PM (sometimes slightly ahead of schedule).
    Last edited by SES; 07-22-2009, 11:35 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Copier Network, LLC
    replied
    Originally posted by yogesh View Post
    we have installed last year machine is already done more than 300000 copies and its doing extremly well,we are very happy with the performance of the machine
    We are a wholesaler & now have 5) 7000's in stock. If anyone is happy w/ their Canon eq, we have some to choose from at wholesale pricing. The Copier Network sells end-of-lease and repossessed copiers at wholesale prices. We specialize in color copiers and RIP interfaces (copier sales, color copier sales, color copiers).

    Leave a comment:


  • Damianc
    replied
    There is no comparison between the CLC 4000 and the iP C7000VP. The information about quality on the 8000 was taken from Xerox blurbs; the caveat is not whether it will run the stock at 80ipm, but that you lose some quality, which again, is from Xerox's statements. 2de is very impressive, and it is matched by the Canon. There may be training issues from dealer to dealer, but we haven't experienced any. I wasn't trying to tout the product as a dealer, merely to contribute to the discussion. I realize that this is a printer forum, and I left my sales hat at home. The Kodak team has yet to prove that they have superior service. The ORC model is also offered by Canon, depending on the dealer. The Kodak M700 lacks some features of the Canon product,i.e. paper library, finishing, etc., but they do have their own RIP, which some may prefer. Xerox makes a great product, no denying it. But so does Canon. Canon's toner laydown is certainly better, accounting for its claim, "the look and feel of offset." So, peace brother, enjoy your Xerox.

    Leave a comment:


  • Craig
    replied
    Originally posted by Damianc View Post
    The Canon's registration is the same as the Xerox 8000AP, .5mm. The c7000 will run some 14pt stocks, and will run heavier stocks, but anything over 300gsm, and there's no guarantee. Color drift is probably the lowest in the industry, according to BERTL. The Xerox 8000 AP, has caveats about running heavy stock at full speed, that is, some loss of quality. The Canon has none, same quality, full 70ppm speed, up to 300gsm.
    Really, the 8000AP has caveats about running heavy stock. I'm glad I just got that message after 600,000 impressions with 65% of them 216 to 300 gsm at 2,400, 12x18 IPH. I guess the only caveat would be that you may run out of paper if you don't watch your stock . There is absolutely no loss in quality between the 2 print modes, that is a complete ignorant statement. Oh, and this is while maintaining a 15% increase in productivity over the c7000.

    Color drift is yet another useless argument, my machine is less that 2dE (hardly noticeable to the trained human eye) from first sheet to last, my old CLC4000 couldn't keep that from the left side to the right side of the same sheet!

    Canon has a tough row to hoe in the production world, especially since most of the post install issues are due to poor service training (this coming from a trained ImagePress c7000 tech. who received the info during a meeting with Canon USA) you promised the world with the "Largest R&D investment in history". Than God for Kodak, at least they can pick up your slack.

    This coming from a Canon dealer... at least your not biased.

    Leave a comment:


  • Damianc
    replied
    C7000 v Xerox 8000

    The Canon's registration is the same as the Xerox 8000AP, .5mm. The c7000 will run some 14pt stocks, and will run heavier stocks, but anything over 300gsm, and there's no guarantee. Color drift is probably the lowest in the industry, according to BERTL. The Xerox 8000 AP, has caveats about running heavy stock at full speed, that is, some loss of quality. The Canon has none, same quality, full 70ppm speed, up to 300gsm.

    Leave a comment:


  • Craig
    replied
    I for the life of me can't understand why it takes these companies to get their ORC or Key-op programs up and running. They (not just Canon, but others too) build and market these boxes with ORC components yet take a year to get the program figured out! How hard can it be since the machines were engineered with them from the beginning.

    If it needs a web, you have one on the shelf and put it in, call for a new one to replace the one you just put in. WOW I just figured it out for them!!!

    I have the same issue with a Ricoh MP9000, almost 3 years and nothing official on ORC's but the field supervisor has me trained (took 20 minutes after cutting through all the BS). I finally got Pi$$ed when a cleaning web needed changed and had to wait 2 hours for service and the tech shows up and said "Oh, this is suppose to be replaced by you anyway" and it took him 5 minutes, and he left.

    If you complain and tell your salesperson that one of the main reasons you bought this piece of crap was for ORC's and you are tired of waiting for service for something that is field replaceable, and you will start short paying your click charges based on the down time it takes for service to fix something when it's an ORC. They will usually show you what to do.

    I can't stand unnecessary down time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Neal Anderson
    replied
    Mario,
    In regards to your speed issue on pulling different weight stocks for a booklet, there is another fix, or work-around. Print all your covers first. Next print your interior pages, as a booklet and pull your covers from the inserter trays that are on the finisher. This allows the heavier stock to bypass the fixers. The slow down you're experiencing is due to the fixers having to heat up and cool down for the different weight stocks. I've successfully done this multiple times for a customer we have. It increased our speed by almost 9 times! You may have to use the mailbox feature to print the inside pages and pull the covers from the inserter trays.

    We've had our ImagePress since June 16, and now have approx. 670,000 clicks on it. We've had our problems (Known Yellow developer issue, as well as ITB belt needing to be replaced more frequently than service spec.). We've had good color consistency. We calibrate at least twice a day and take delta readings after every cal. So far, we have maintained a maximum of 1.5 - 1.75 dE variance. Our only color complaint would be that the ImagePress tends to fill-in, in the three quarter tones.

    We've been a little frustrated by the amount of down time that is required for preventative maintenance visits, by our local Canon service. However, since Canon has not yet rolled out their Key-Op. Service program yet, we have begun training through our local Canon Service Technician to train me on some of the Preventative Maintenance items. We were told that all the Yellow screws, indicated Key-Operator Serviceable items. So far, this has gone very well.

    Leave a comment:


  • X33
    replied
    Re: Canon 7000

    In their brochures, all the machines say they can perform at high volumes. Reality is different.

    Remember that the Canon 7000 is Canon's first attemp to get in the Digital Production Color market. It's release to the market was delayed more than a year.

    Leave a comment:


  • Craig
    replied
    Re: Canon 7000

    At least your not biased Jeannie

    I did just have a conversation from our old Tech from one of the named companies in Jeannie's post who said that they had a meeting with Canon who said that most of the issues with the 7000 is due to bad service in the field.

    Leave a comment:


  • DigitalPrintGurl
    replied
    Re: Canon 7000

    When posting concerns and issues regarding the Canon imagePRESS 7000, it would be helpful to mention who you are actually receiving service from. I know for a fact that there have been many clients that have the 7000 through CBS that are having major service issues. Perhaps you should look at IKON.

    IKON has multiple successful placements of the 7000 series and 80% of the placements are new accounts meaning they had previously been with CBS, Xerox or Gordon Flesch. I recommend contacting IKON, they can take over the service and trust me this would not be the first time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Craig
    replied
    Re: Canon 7000

    You are correct on the service technicians, whenever I called they were here within a few hours, but what I am referring to is the support from Canon, they send their machines out saying they can do this and that, and force the service technicians to do the field repairs to make it work. Then when you find your equipment down for several days, their response is oh well?? There is no reason why you should have a tech. at your shop so often that they need a time card. You should expect nothing less total satisfaction from Canon or any other company, after all you are paying a lot of money for these machines.

    As for your question on the machine I own, it is a Xerox DocuColor 8000AP. This is after owning 7 Canon boxes and being a customer for 14 years. I will never look back and am very happy with Xerox.

    Another machine that was introduced is Ricoh C900 (I think that's the model) it is 90 ppm. OCE has some nice equipment too.

    Leave a comment:

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