Xerox 252 vs Konica 6500

heavenearth

New member
We are a service bureau looking to purchase a digital printer. After reading through the forum, there is no comparison between these two models. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks

Chris
 
Re: Xerox 252 vs Konica 6500

Hello Chris,

The following attachment is a one sheet comparison of the Konica Minolta 6500 (Ikon Brand: CPP 650).

I am in the Southern California area. Any more assistance feel free to email at [email protected].

Hope this helps.

Scott
 
Re: Xerox 252 vs Konica 6500

Chris,
my first suggestion is to contact your Xerox representative wherever you are. If in the U.S., call 1800ASKXEROX; if not, go to www.xerox.com
Your Xerox rep will provide you with tons of information, facts and industry related articles about these 2 units, and don't forget to ask also about the new Xerox 700 Digital Color Press, it's incredible : http://www.xerox.com/digital-printing/printers/digital-press/xerox-700/enus.html
 
Re: Xerox 252 vs Konica 6500

Scott,

Do you have the same sort of comparison for CPP650 and the new xerox 700?

Thanks
 
Re: Xerox 252 vs Konica 6500

No, you may want to look at any 5000 or 7000 stats, this device is using like technology but has a greater ability to process heavier stock. The 700 is still too new to create comparisons other than MFR spec sheet.
 
Re: Xerox 252 vs Konica 6500

Hi there,

I am going to be rather cheeky now, if you are in the uk why not use us???
With an igen, and large volumes, the price with click rate means I can offer very low prices to trade people.


Neil

www.nichecom.co.uk/dp
 
Re: Xerox 252 vs Konica 6500

I just completed a comparison of these two printers and decided to go with the Konica. 252 contains many plastic parts and flimsy construction compared to Konica. During a demo the printer did nothing but jam which was embarrassing for the Xerox rep. 50 ppm vs 65 for the Konica. Cost of total ownership is much less for the Konica than Xerox. I was also very surprised at the how good the Konica quality was. It also ran different substrates (100# cover glossy, label stock, etc.) very well.
 
We are also looking at upgrading to one of these machines.

One concern is that we do a lot of short runs of color letterhead.

Do letterheads printed on either of these machines track the toner down the page when the pre-printed letterhead is later printed thru the customer's laser printer??

Thanks.
 
We are also looking at upgrading to one of these machines.

One concern is that we do a lot of short runs of color letterhead.

Do letterheads printed on either of these machines track the toner down the page when the pre-printed letterhead is later printed thru the customer's laser printer??

Thanks.


I've put the same question to both Xerox and Konica and the answer is that neither is "laser guaranteed". You may get away with it most of the time, but they can't guarantee compatability with all laser printers.
 
And the big question is: which one do you recommend? We're a print and copy center looking to get one of these (or similar) to replace a Canon 7200 B&W (50k per month) and Canon 3200 color (10k per month). Thanks.
 
In comparing both machines I went with the Xerox 252. I thought the quality of the print was slightly in the favor of the 252, but both seem very close. The 6500 seemed to be built a little stronger (less plastic) but since I'm leasing and running a service contract I don't care. Both machines seem to have their strengths and weaknesses. Compare the support you'll get between the vendors as well as the machines. Sounds like you want to replace 2 machines with 1 - why? I think your better running 2 smaller machines than 1 bigger, but I could be wrong.
 
We just upgraded from two canon 3200's to a xerox 242. The 3200s have served us well and we have a great service contract on them in terms of a very skilled Ikon technician (with 1.1 million + 500 thousand 11x17 prints between the pair so far) but the xerox 242 really blows them away in quality - great black and white photo quality, more consistent, much better density and tonal range, faster, and lower price per print. We really wanted to get an Ikon KM 550 due to its build quality and our technician, but the docucolor 242 presented noticeably nicer prints to my eye, the ability to print on gloss and kromekote which I really enjoy, and much more competitive click per print (will save about $25,000 over 5 years with the xerox vs. the km at our current volume)
 
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And the big question is: which one do you recommend? We're a print and copy center looking to get one of these (or similar) to replace a Canon 7200 B&W (50k per month) and Canon 3200 color (10k per month). Thanks.

Both are good machines, although you must realise that the 6501 system 7 with an IC-305, FACI etc., is 3x the price of a 242 with bustled RIP, so I don't think that making a comparison between them is really fair to the 242, you really need to compare a basic 5501 and the 242 -or- the 6501 system 7 and the Xerox 700.

The 700 came out as a direct response to the 6500 which was "eating Xerox's lunch" as they had a big yawning chasm in their product line between the 2xx product range and the 5000. This was especially acute in Europe where Xerox charge roughly 2x the capital cost for hardware compared with prices in the USA. I mention this because the 700 and 6501 system 7 are very, very similar machines. So the following comments apply to both except where mentioned.

The 2xx print engine is excellent, so I don't think that you will find a lot of difference between the print quality on a 2xx with a decent RIP and a 700. Some people drone on about the relative qualities of 2400dpi 1-bit vs 600dpi 8-bit (the 2xx/700 is one the 6501 is the other). I'm yet to be convinced that anyone outside of a lab really understands the difference between these. Subjectively, there is no difference. The output from a 700 and a 6501 (with an IC-304 or 305) are both excellent and sellable. Even with calibration using a specrophotometer, we cannot get the colour accuracy of our 250 to be anywhere near as accurate as our 6501, or as consistent across the sheet, or during a run, so if that's important to you, you need to factor that in. Bear in mind that in our experience the 2xx is not bad at all in this regard, just not in the same league as a more expensive machine. We have no experience of the same on a 700 as we don't have one.

The major weakness on a 2xx series is the paper handling. Front to back registration is poor and it struggles to handle coated stocks, even with the SRA3 high capacity feeder option (yes, we have this too). You cannot duplex coated stocks in our experience. The 700 apparently addresses these problems. We have excellent front to back registration with our 6501 *system 7* and good paper handling once you understand it's limitations. Please note that I emphasise the system 7 bit. We never use any input trays except the big high cap ones you get with the system 7, with the air separators and the pre-heaters. I would guess that paper handling, f-t-b registration etc. would be very different if you don't have these.

What are the weaknesses on the 6501 paper handling? Not many really, I think it's probably the best in class for it's price range. We've found that it does not like handling coated litho stock less than 115gsm and is happiest at 150gsm and above. It will pretty much run constantly with no jams on this paper. Gloss vs silk does not seem to make much difference. You will get marking on stiff card stock, i.e. greeting card board, all the way down to 240gsm. The marking is caused by the conveyor which is installed when you have the high capacity stacker, so other configurations won't have this. The other daft thing is that you cannot stack 300gsm into the high capacity stacker, it has to go into the top tray. The top tray is too short for SRA3 paper which means that some of the stack overhangs the end. As the card will be hot from the fuser, it slumps a little and "sets" in that position, making it difficult to feed for laminating etc. That's easy to fix by cutting a sheet of thick plastic and glueing that on top of the tray - but it's still a daft design flaw.

The elephant in the room is service. We have had a lot of niggles with the 6501, some of which are ongoing with K-M. I think that if we were being serviced by a reseller without the same level of manufacturer training and experience, we would be very unhappy bunnies. Whenever I hear of a really unhappy 6501 customer, it always seems that they have bought from and are serviced through a local photocopier sales company. IMO letting these types of organisation service a print-for-pay machine is a big mistake by K-M. One of Xerox's strengths has always been it's service department, and the service is always from Xerox. If you're not 100% confident in the service you will get for any machine you're looking at, walk away from the deal. It's that important.

Hope that helps. We really should have a sticky about this subject, it comes up so often.

PS, I've noticed several people mention that the print from a 6501 is very matt. We don't find this, although it is matt on uncoated paper. On gloss paper, it's reasonably gloss. Not the same high gloss as a Xerox 7000/8000, but closer to the 2xx/700 series. If people are finding different, then I would make sure that you have your paper profiled correctly.
 
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konica v xerox

konica v xerox

The state of the economy has me downsizing 2 machines into 1.

I still have two Canon IR 600s b&w and a CLC 1120 as backups. Granted they are not as sophisticated but there's still work them.

Canon -- whose service has been great -- wants a ridiculous buyout price for the IR 7200 and IR color 3200, or I'd keep one/both.

The Xerox 260 and 700 are rated about the same speed as the 7200 for B&W.

I can always add a machine later if necessary. Low meter B&W's and 3200s are a dime a dozen.

Thank you all for your valuable input. This is a big decision, for a small company, in difficult times.
 
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, lfelton. Those are those posts that make coming to this site worth while. Many valid as well as interesting points.
 
The elephant in the room is service. We have had a lot of niggles with the 6501, some of which are ongoing with K-M. I think that if we were being serviced by a reseller without the same level of manufacturer training and experience, we would be very unhappy bunnies. Whenever I hear of a really unhappy 6501 customer, it always seems that they have bought from and are serviced through a local photocopier sales company. IMO letting these types of organisation service a print-for-pay machine is a big mistake by K-M. One of Xerox's strengths has always been it's service department, and the service is always from Xerox. If you're not 100% confident in the service you will get for any machine you're looking at, walk away from the deal. It's that important.

.


I think this is one of the most important quotes, but also needs to have additional feedback. Service is 100% key... Direct Manufacture support is not always better. A good dealer can be better and more responsive. I've heard many stories of print shops having to turn over their jobs so a direct tech couldn't see the customer outsourcing and report back. I've also seen a direct ship a machine with a bent frame and claim it was ok. I've also see where they "can't fix an issue" knowing what the issue is. For instance in my market on the 1050's we increased the diamater of the laser to improve density. KM took another 9 months to do the same thing. You have to remember there are two types of independant dealers... the small potato's- undercapitolized, not well trained just trying to survive... and the big players... usually with the most marketshare, usually having better benchmarking systems in place and almost always more customer focused.
 
I think this is one of the most important quotes, but also needs to have additional feedback. Service is 100% key... Direct Manufacture support is not always better. A good dealer can be better and more responsive. I've heard many stories of print shops having to turn over their jobs so a direct tech couldn't see the customer outsourcing and report back. I've also seen a direct ship a machine with a bent frame and claim it was ok. I've also see where they "can't fix an issue" knowing what the issue is. For instance in my market on the 1050's we increased the diamater of the laser to improve density. KM took another 9 months to do the same thing. You have to remember there are two types of independant dealers... the small potato's- undercapitolized, not well trained just trying to survive... and the big players... usually with the most marketshare, usually having better benchmarking systems in place and almost always more customer focused.

If you have a direct rep. that cares or is not there for a sell yah the hell with yah. You should get just as good service and support as any dealer.
References are key!
 

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